Baptism

[atpollard]

Would you say it is a testimony of our identity with Christ in His crucifixion , death and burial?

Yes … and more.

 

[Bible Thumpin n Gun Totin]

My question is, what are we testifying to in our baptism?

Ah, got it.

We are testifying that we are Saved by Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

Baptism symbolized that we are buried in the water and rise out of it as Christ did before us.

Christ was fully immersed in His tomb, so should we be in water IMO.

 

[Aaron]

Ah, got it.

We are testifying that we are Saved by Christ's death, burial and resurrection.

Baptism symbolized that we are buried in the water and rise out of it as Christ did before us.

Christ was fully immersed in His tomb, so should we be in water IMO.

Would you say that we are testifying to the fact that we are crucified and buried with Him? Not that He merely represented us, but that He carried us through the judgment of God and rose us up to new life?

 

[Aaron]

Fair enough. My Southern Baptist Church (Cornerstone Baptist Church … like no one else EVER used that name ) made a HUGE deal that everybody understood what they were doing and what it symbolized.

Every Baptist church does. That's why there is so much focus on the mode. They want the act to resemble the testimony as much as possible.

Baptism was one of the “already and not yet” things of God.

• PAST: Our baptism (immersion) symbolized our Union with Christ in HIS physical death. Jesus really died and really entered the grave, just as we are symbolically really buried beneath the water. We are united with Jesus in His past literal death for our very real sins. As Jesus rose from the literal grave, we rise from the literal water, however our sins were removed through His death and resurrection. He rose transformed and because of his past work, we rise transformed.
• PRESENT: Our baptism is a statement to the world by both us (the person being baptized) and the Church gathered to celebrate and be witnesses. The person is proclaiming that they are dead to the word (symbolically burying the “old man” in the water) and they arise a “new man” in Christ … part of the community of the Family of God , The Church, His Bride … who stand there to witness and welcome the newest member. It is a proclamation to all that a dramatic change has taken place and everything is now divided between that which came before and that which comes after. It is a personal Ebeneezer.
• FUTURE: our baptism is a reminder that God is not finished. It is a reminder to look FORWARD to the “rest of the promise”. Some day, each of us will be laid to rest in an earthen grave. We will be buried for real. However, this next burial is not the end, but the beginning of the REAL promise. We will rise from the earthen grave just as we rise from the water. We will be transformed from what we were to the far more glorious what we shall be. The past (Jesus’ resurrection) and the present (our transformation from sinner to Saint) are shadows of the future that God has prepared for us.

That is the “meaning and testimony” of baptism as taught both at the little church I attend and any baptism that I have the honor to officiate over.

YMMV

This is fairly comprehensive, but accurate.

When you say union with Christ in His death, would you say that we are in essence testifying that we indeed were crucified and buried with Christ, and are raised with Him?

That He died in our place?

 

[Aaron]

Yes … and more.

What do you think it means to identify with Him in His crucifixion, death and burial?

 

[Aaron]

An act of profession.

Right, the act of baptism testifies of something, it's not the thing itself.

What it is itself is the initiatory rite into the church. No one can be considered to be a member of the body of Christ until he is baptized (even though he is a member in truth). But we're saying something by baptism. Not merely that we've taken on His yoke, but His identity. We're saying that we are in Him. Really in Him, like Noah was in the Ark.

So His death is our death, the rightful death of our old man. And His life is our life, the reward of His righteousness.

 

[Marooncat79]

Well since we only control our water baptism it’s that

God controls the Spiritual Union w Christ in our Spiritual baptism which is the new birth

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Back in Baptist Polity class at MBBC as taught by the late Richard Weeks, we learned that a valid baptism had these factors:

Proper Meaning (It's symbolic and not salvic)
Proper Mode (Immersion only)
Proper Administrator (as authorized by a local church)​

 

[Van]

You're weird.

You are obfuscating by trying to change the subject.

It is as if Calvinists deny all born anew believers have been spiritually baptized into Christ.

 

[JesusFan]

Every Baptist church does. That's why there is so much focus on the mode. They want the act to resemble the testimony as much as possible.

This is fairly comprehensive, but accurate.

When you say union with Christ in His death, would you say that we are in essence testifying that we indeed were crucified and buried with Christ, and are raised with Him?

That He died in our place?

Seems that Paul was teaching a link to Psa right in the water baptism!

 

[Aaron]

Back in Baptist Polity class at MBBC as taught by the late Richard Weeks, we learned that a valid baptism had these factors:

Proper Meaning (It's symbolic and not salvic)​

Exactly. That we are baptized into His death. He is not merely our representative. He is our substitute. A universal, non-optional Baptist principle.

 

[atpollard]

When you say union with Christ in His death, would you say that we are in essence testifying that we indeed were crucified and buried with Christ, and are raised with Him?

That He died in our place?

They taught that, and I lean strongly towards agreement. Recently, I have had the EXACT wording of scripture rubbed in my nose and have to admit that the Word is clear that we are forgiven BECAUSE of His death, and our SINS were placed on Him … but we are forced to “connect the dots” to reach the exact conclusion that he died in our place.

It begs the question whether the Levitical lamb “died in anyone’s place” or served some other purpose. That sort of feels like I am getting too much into God’s business (how and why He forgives).

 

[Aaron]

They taught that, and I lean strongly towards agreement. Recently, I have had the EXACT wording of scripture rubbed in my nose and have to admit that the Word is clear that we are forgiven BECAUSE of His death, and our SINS were placed on Him … but we are forced to “connect the dots” to reach the exact conclusion that he died in our place.

It begs the question whether the Levitical lamb “died in anyone’s place” or served some other purpose. That sort of feels like I am getting too much into God’s business (how and why He forgives).

In our baptism, we are in essence laying our hands on the head of the sacrifice.

 

[atpollard]

In our baptism, we are in essence laying our hands on the head of the sacrifice.

Ironically, like everything we (people) do that would seem only a "half-truth".

On the one hand, the "old man" (flesh) is dead, so it applies symbolically.
On the other hand, by the time one has been drawn and repented and is being baptized "to receive the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2) ... has the sacrifice not already been slain just to get you that far? So as usual, men are "a day late and a dollar short" of God's reality.

 

[Aaron]

Ironically, like everything we (people) do that would seem only a "half-truth".

On the one hand, the "old man" (flesh) is dead, so it applies symbolically.
On the other hand, by the time one has been drawn and repented and is being baptized "to receive the Holy Spirit" (Acts 2) ... has the sacrifice not already been slain just to get you that far? So as usual, men are "a day late and a dollar short" of God's reality.

Yes.

That's also a Baptist distinctive. The rites are symbols, not the reality itself.

But symbols of something specific. It means something to be baptized into Christ's death, and there can be no fundamental disagreement over that meaning, and still be considered a Baptist.

So, I'll repeat the question I asked in another thread.

Is this any longer a Baptist board when a moderator openly declares the meaning of the baptism to be false?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Is this any longer a Baptist board when a moderator openly declares the meaning of the baptism to be false?

Did you report this to the Admin Team?

 

[Aaron]

Did you report this to the Admin Team?

How do I do that?

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Below the comment block on the left-hand side is a line of buttons. Edit delete and report. Or PM me.

How do I do that?

 

[JesusFan]

Yes.

That's also a Baptist distinctive. The rites are symbols, not the reality itself.

But symbols of something specific. It means something to be baptized into Christ's death, and there can be no fundamental disagreement over that meaning, and still be considered a Baptist.

So, I'll repeat the question I asked in another thread.

Is this any longer a Baptist board when a moderator openly declares the meaning of the baptism to be false?

What posting was that?

 

[Aaron]

What posting was that?

That's JonC of late. Saying He we were not with Him on the Cross. That He was not in our place.