Baptist View on Capitol Punishment

[JohnDeereFan]

We can't use the Bible to mandate capital punishment because the mandating passages apply to Old Testament Israel and not to modern-day societies.

No, we can't use the Bible to mandate capital punishment because we're not a theocracy, but we can use it to show that capital punishment is acceptable to the Christian, because God's ordination of the government to carry out capital punishment is repeated several times in the New Testament.

 

[canadyjd]

Sure it is. Different offenses received different punishment. If you want to use scripture to back up the argument for your view on the death penalty you need to use the exact penalty for your specific offense.

Don't play dumb. The O.T. penalty for adultery was stoning to death. The way the penalty was executed remained the same. The witnesses began the stoning. Jesus changed that to the "one who is without sin", which eliminates everyone but God.

Absolutely. You tried to make the case that since God is the only one without sin only He has the right to effect the death penalty. But the same was true during the OT so your argument is mute.

I said only God is without sin, which means only God is without bias, without political motives, with perfect knowledege and perfect righteousness and perfect judgement.

No punishment exhibits what you are trying to impose on everyone. Any single punishment fails to meet that criteria.

Absurd. I've never advocated not punishing people for murder or any other crime. That's just a straw man from someone without an argument.

I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone. I'm attempting to follow scripture just like everyone else who claims to believe what the bible says.

I just believe what it says and I don't make excuses or try to explain it away in order to hold on to certain beliefs that are politically popular.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

But if you were consistent, you would say Paul, a murderer, should get "life in prison without parole." Should he have?

Should he have gotten the death penalty?

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

No, we can't use the Bible to mandate capital punishment because we're not a theocracy, but we can use it to show that capital punishment is acceptable to the Christian, because God's ordination of the government to carry out capital punishment is repeated several times in the New Testament.

Christians have no mandate to support something that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

At the time the New Testament was written, Christians were, at times, being executed for being Christians.

Do you suppose those Christians thought the death penalty, implemented by the government of Rome, was "acceptable"?

Do you think Christians in the 1st century, say about the time Nero lit his garden with a few thousand burning Christians so he could have a night party, do you think those Christians would have supported the death penalty if they had a choice?

When the governments around the world turn and begin to kill Christians using the very same type of laws that some Christians now support (and we all know that it will happen since we have read the back of the book, right?), do you think some who once supported the death penalty will see the irony of it all?

peace to youraying:

 

[FR7 Baptist]

No, we can't use the Bible to mandate capital punishment because we're not a theocracy, but we can use it to show that capital punishment is acceptable to the Christian, because God's ordination of the government to carry out capital punishment is repeated several times in the New Testament.

That doesn't mean we have to. That's a matter of public policy.

 

[rbell]

Christians have no mandate to support something that is contrary to the teachings of Jesus Christ.

At the time the New Testament was written, Christians were, at times, being executed for being Christians.

Do you suppose those Christians thought the death penalty, implemented by the government of Rome, was "acceptable"?

Do you think Christians in the 1st century, say about the time Nero lit his garden with a few thousand burning Christians so he could have a night party, do you think those Christians would have supported the death penalty if they had a choice?

When the governments around the world turn and begin to kill Christians using the very same type of laws that some Christians now support (and we all know that it will happen since we have read the back of the book, right?), do you think some who once supported the death penalty will see the irony of it all?

peace to youraying:

Rome's use of capital punishment runs counter to Scripture.

The capital punishment referred to here is in Scripture.

Um...that's a pretty big difference.

 

[Mexdeaf]

To support the death penalty IS to be pro-life.

 

[Alcott]

Should he have gotten the death penalty?

Should he have gotten life without parole?

 

[Revmitchell]

Don't play dumb. The O.T. penalty for adultery was stoning to death.

Then why did you not use the verse associated with adultery instead of idolatry?

Jesus changed that to the "one who is without sin", which eliminates everyone but God.

Jesus did not change one law which was supported by His very own claim I posted. You understanding of Christ's intent of that verse is incorrect.

I said only God is without sin, which means only God is without bias, without political motives, with perfect knowledege and perfect righteousness and perfect judgement.

No one has perfect knowledge yet God set up that men should be governed by men. Your logic would lead to anarchy.

Absurd. I've never advocated not punishing people for murder or any other crime. That's just a straw man from someone without an argument.

I never said you did. I merely pointed out the logical end of your flawed argument.

I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone. I'm attempting to follow scripture just like everyone else who claims to believe what the bible says.

But you take it out of context therefore it is imposed.

 

[canadyjd]

Rome's use of capital punishment runs counter to Scripture.

The capital punishment referred to here is in Scripture.

Um...that's a pretty big difference.

The capital punishment argument referred to here is that God gave governments the authority to use capital punishment.

Rome had a government and was in power when the scripture was written. Paul must have been referring to Rome.

peace to youraying:

 

[canadyjd]

Then why did you not use the verse associated with adultery instead of idolatry?

Because Jesus referred to the Deut. passage. Jesus set the context and I followed it.

No one has perfect knowledge yet God set up that men should be governed by men. Your logic would lead to anarchy.

Another straw man. I am not advocating no government. I am stating what is clear from scripture, Christians shouldn't support the death penalty.

But you take it out of context therefore it is imposed.

I've taken nothing out of context. I have been very careful to state the context of the passage.

peace to youraying:

 

[sag38]

Funny, what pacifists see as being clear, many see as a gross misinterpretation of the scripture. That's the sad thing about pacifism. Such conclusions would be disastrous for our country. It destroys freedom and encourages slavery to evil. Imagine if our country had been run by pacifists in the reign of Hitler. There would be no freedom. The same holds true for the death penalty. The ill placed logic of pacifism is ruining our criminal justice system. We don't need to eliminate the death penalty we need to use it more. Predatory pedophilia needs to be at the top of the list of death penalty crimes.

 

[Jim1999]

Please don't confuse the defence of freedom and killing a criminal considering all the mistakes that have been made over the years.

Yes, we need to enforce the laws of the land, and we need to make changes to how the prison system should work. This does not mean killing more people.

Cheers,

Jim

Remember, in the early days, men lost their heads, because they were hungry and stole a loaf of bread! Thank God, men gained some sensibility along the way.

 

[jaigner]

Funny, what pacifists see as being clear, many see as a gross misinterpretation of the scripture. That's the sad thing about pacifism. Such conclusions would be disastrous for our country. It destroys freedom and encourages slavery to evil. Imagine if our country had been run by pacifists in the reign of Hitler. There would be no freedom. The same holds true for the death penalty. The ill placed logic of pacifism is ruining our criminal justice system. We don't need to eliminate the death penalty we need to use it more. Predatory pedophilia needs to be at the top of the list of death penalty crimes.

You realize that most pedophiles were once abused themselves, right? Instead of giving them the death penalty, we need to take steps to break that cycle of abuse. Killing those people, who are, by the way, still image-bearers, does not break it.

I'm not a pacifist, I just don't see this use of force as being helpful.

 

[jaigner]

Because Jesus referred to the Deut. passage. Jesus set the context and I followed it.
Another straw man. I am not advocating no government. I am stating what is clear from scripture, Christians shouldn't support the death penalty.
I've taken nothing out of context. I have been very careful to state the context of the passage.

peace to youraying:

Canady, your statements are coherent and lucid. He likes to manipulate people with differing opinions into making them sound theologically or politically liberal, which he confuses all the time. It's strange, confusing and malicious. Has no place in these discussions.

You're doing a great job.

 

[Cutter]

You realize that most pedophiles were once abused themselves, right? Instead of giving them the death penalty, we need to take steps to break that cycle of abuse.

If capital punishment is not the answer, what, short of sterilization, should be done for them?

 

[jaigner]

If capital punishment is not the answer, what, short of sterilization, should be done for them?

They should be locked up where they cannot prey on children anymore. I'm not sure about castration, but there have even been some abusers that recognized their inability to fight their impulses and requested it be done. Not sure it should be mandatory.

It's also a question of what should be done for the abused. So many times the ball was dropped that allowed these people (mostly boys) to continue the cycle of abuse. They need way more help than they get, mostly. School officials, parents, law enforcement, etc. are often privy to the warning signs, but don't do a thing about it.

 

[rbell]

The capital punishment argument referred to here is that God gave governments the authority to use capital punishment.

Rome had a government and was in power when the scripture was written. Paul must have been referring to Rome.

peace to youraying:

Sorry, but you cannot equivocate death penalty for "Being a Christian" with the OT death penalty for killing another person.

Logically, that's not gonna fly. Two different issues, and making them the same won't work.

 

[rbell]

You realize that most pedophiles were once abused themselves, right? Instead of giving them the death penalty, we need to take steps to break that cycle of abuse.

Castration with a rusty knife breaks the cycle of abuse pretty effectively.

Good use for rusty knives, too.

Sorry, but I've counseled several folks who were abused as kids, that took the higher road. As long as right from wrong is known, then they are utterly without excuse.

 

[sag38]

There's a difference between your average scuzzy pedophile and a predatory pedophile who tortures, rapes, and murders without impunity. For them, the death penalty is in order.