"Baptist"

[atpollard]

No thanks... personally find it a big waste of time these days and putting a guy in a dunk tank, well I can get that at a county fair. And Denny’s ain’t my speed either but I’m sure ya gots plenty of ribs & beans places. Next probably go to those after hours cross burning meetings you all southerners are famous for...a fire show sure to make an impression.

Well, we can’t all be snake handlers like our Northern Cousins.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I said it was not for salvation. What did you think I said?

So the bottom line then is of what use is it? A Catholic would say it’s vital to someone’s salvation to have sins (origional sin) washed away, a Presbyterian would say it’s a ritual circumsicion, the Baptist says it’s a right of Christian passage. So which is it... and is it necessary to your faith, indeed to your salvation after all?

Then, what was Johns baptism about? The Jews of the day had ritual baths called Mikva done to clean the individual and make them presentable in front of the Lord. If you transgressed, if you had a menstral cycle, if you were converting to being a Jew, you went into the Mikva. The priests of the temple were in charge and you paid them to conduct that ritual. But now your an incredibly poor person who couldn’t pony up the money... then you remained an unclean class of person.

Here is where John the Baptist steps in. The guy is in the Jordan River, in the wilderness, freely baptizing them, telling them their sins are forgiven . Can you see the pivotal difference. And he is broadcasting to everyone that access to God is as free as water. Look you poor people, you too can be washed clean without temple interference. That is revolutionary!!! Think how the temple priests felt, you are taking away their livelihood. John, that wild man in the wilderness brings God to the poor and disenfranchised. Is there any wonder that the establishment of the day killed him.

And Jesus participated in Johns baptism. Note he never does it himself but he condones it... and there is real significance there. I suggest that all Christians consider what the Baptist and our lord Jesus were doing to free people to access to God... it’s a real eye opener.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, we can’t all be snake handlers like our Northern Cousins.

Nor can you make a good pizza.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm not trying to convert or convince him, only tell him what scripture says... He's a touchy Southern Baptist... ... Sorry that was the wrong word... In the words of M. C. Hammer... U Can't Touch This!... Brother Glen

Again the Lord leads us into a great sign of humility and servitude... what can I say!

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Perhaps brokenness is necessary to deep understanding. Sitting at an AA meetings and hearing the stories, sitting at a cancer treatment center with the one you love yada yada... it changes you. Now it’s one day at a time.

Praise God!

 

[Martin Marprelate]

From the 1689 Confession:

29. Baptism

1. Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be to the person who is baptised - a sign of his fellowship with Christ in His death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into Christ; of remission of sins; and of that person's giving up of himself to God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life.
2. Those who actually profess repentance towards God, faith in, and obedience to, our Lord Jesus Christ, are the only proper subjects for this ordinance.
3. The outward element to be used in this ordinance is water, in which the person is to be baptised in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
4. Immersion - the dipping of the person in water - is necessary for the due administration of this ordinance.

I think it is also a sign of the acceptance of the one baptized by the congregation, that his profession of faith is credible and that he is regarded by them as a brother in Christ.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

From the 1689 Confession:

29. Baptism

1. Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be to the person who is baptised - a sign of his fellowship with Christ in His death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into Christ; of remission of sins; and of that person's giving up of himself to God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life.
2. Those who actually profess repentance towards God, faith in, and obedience to, our Lord Jesus Christ, are the only proper subjects for this ordinance.
3. The outward element to be used in this ordinance is water, in which the person is to be baptised in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.
4. Immersion - the dipping of the person in water - is necessary for the due administration of this ordinance.

I think it is also a sign of the acceptance of the one baptized by the congregation, that his profession of faith is credible and that he is regarded by them as a brother in Christ.

Do you require it for salvation?

 

[loDebar]

So the bottom line then is of what use is it? A Catholic would say it’s vital to someone’s salvation to have sins (origional sin) washed away, a Presbyterian would say it’s a ritual circumsicion, the Baptist says it’s a right of Christian passage. So which is it... and is it necessary to your faith, indeed to your salvation after all?

Then, what was Johns baptism about? The Jews of the day had ritual baths called Mikva done to clean the individual and make them presentable in front of the Lord. If you transgressed, if you had a menstral cycle, if you were converting to being a Jew, you went into the Mikva. The priests of the temple were in charge and you paid them to conduct that ritual. But now your an incredibly poor person who couldn’t pony up the money... then you remained an unclean class of person.

Here is where John the Baptist steps in. The guy is in the Jordan River, in the wilderness, freely baptizing them, telling them their sins are forgiven . Can you see the pivotal difference. And he is broadcasting to everyone that access to God is as free as water. Look you poor people, you too can be washed clean without temple interference. That is revolutionary!!! Think how the temple priests felt, you are taking away their livelihood. John, that wild man in the wilderness brings God to the poor and disenfranchised. Is there any wonder that the establishment of the day killed him.

And Jesus participated in Johns baptism. Note he never does it himself but he condones it... and there is real significance there. I suggest that all Christians consider what the Baptist and our lord Jesus were doing to free people to access to God... it’s a real eye opener.

Well, no wonder you are confused All baptism's are not the same. John's was not for salvation but repentance. We are baptized in the Name of a specific one.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Well, no wonder you are confused All baptism's are not the same. John's was not for salvation but repentance. We are baptized in the Name of a specific one.

I am not confused at all

Back to the Bible - Is water baptism necessary for salvation in Christ?

 

[loDebar]

I am not confused at all

Back to the Bible - Is water baptism necessary for salvation in Christ?

Water baptism is not necessary for salvation.
IT is an outward show of salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Water baptism, while not necessary for salvation, is a command of obedience (Acts 2:38-41; 10:48; 16:32-33; 1 Peter 3:21). If a person refuses to be baptized they are being willfully disobedient. That is a serious matter that may reveal the true nature of that person's spiritual condition. A person may be providentially hindered from being baptized such as a prisoner who comes to faith in Christ while incarcerated.

Willfully disobedient to what? May I suggest Baptist movement fellowship. If so, no big deal. My son could care less and my wife refuses to even broach the subject... but at heart she is a Presbyterian. Her idea of baptism is paedo. My consern then is with their salvations and seriously Baptist ordinances are not of consern to them. They both are confident in their spiritual lives.

 

[atpollard]

Willfully disobedient to what?

[Mat 28:19 NASB] 19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

[Act 2:38-39 NASB] 38 Peter [said] to them, "Repent, and each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call to Himself."

[Rom 6:3 NASB] 3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?

[Gal 3:27 NASB] 27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ.

 

[JonC]

Do you require it for salvation?

Baptism is required of salvation, not for it.

 

[loDebar]

I am not confused at all

Back to the Bible - Is water baptism necessary for salvation in Christ?

This link does not say Baptism is necessary for Salvation but the opposite.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Do you require it for salvation?

Baptism does not save, but if one is saved, why would one not obey our Lord's ordinance? "If you love Me, keep My commandments."
I don't see it as an optional extra. The N.T. knows nothing of the unbaptized Christian. If someone has a principled view that his or her infant 'christening' is valid, then I understand that, and I expect the Lord does too. But otherwise, I don't understand it.

 

[loDebar]

Obedience is required . Because we believe once saved always saved disobedience does not affect salvation only fellowship. So if one is saved but has not decided to be baptized, it is disobedient and it does affect us, but not our salvation.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Baptism is required of salvation, not for it.

You need to explain it in further detail.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

This link does not say Baptism is necessary for Salvation but the opposite.

I know

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Obedience is required . Because we believe once saved always saved disobedience does not affect salvation only fellowship. So if one is saved but has not decided to be baptized, it is disobedient and it does affect us, but not our salvation.

Not everyone believes in OSAS.

Well it will only affect us if we want to fellowship with Baptist churches. My wife has no desire to do so. Again she is a Presbyterian (actually raised in the old Dutch Reformed Church). I myself would never have made a break with Presbyterians had in not been for an Elder who claimed that babies that died prior to infant baptism went to hell. That's when I made my brake with Paedo Christians.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Baptism does not save, but if one is saved, why would one not obey our Lord's ordinance? "If you love Me, keep My commandments."

This is an ordinance, not a commandment. If it where, every christian regardless of stripe would be forced to get dunked....but since its not a "Commandment" its merely arbitrary......more a fellowship thing really. Anyway to people like my wife & son do not consider it significant to their salvation.

I don't see it as an optional extra. The N.T. knows nothing of the unbaptized Christian. If someone has a principled view that his or her infant 'christening' is valid, then I understand that, and I expect the Lord does too. But otherwise, I don't understand it.

not my problem.... maybe you should factor in washing feet .