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Baptists and Women Pastors
- Thread starter FriendofSpurgeon
- Start date
Thinkingstuff
Active Member
I'm very much against women pastors for two reasons. The bible doesn't specify that they should be pastors. And I don't want to be attracted to my pastor in that way. There is a more important third reason as well. Men can't hear certain tones which women's voices hit regularily. Its a scientific fact. So not only do I have to deal with my wife repeating herself; how much of the sermon will I miss. :smilewinkgrin:
No problem. Get a pastor that looks and sounds like Janet Reno. Problem solved.
And as far as tones, any married man will tell you differently. We hear our wives whether we want to or not :wavey:
That explains so much.
The priests and stuff were over a century later, and the bishops did not start being granted more power until the second century.
You seem to be going by Higher Criticism, but that movement ironically takes the Church's word for it that the later Church origanization goes that far back, and hence, there was some change in Pauline theology. (the same with eschatology: he earlier thought Christ was coming soon, but then from some later scriptures, is said to have "realized" that it would be much later).
Jesus called 12 men to be Apostles and to carry on His work after his resurrection. He was also close to many women, such as Mary Magdalene, but did not call her to be an Apostle or pastor. I believe His example is that only men can be pastors, or leaders of the church.
However, I do believe that there is Biblical precedent for the office of Deaconess in the church. This can be a ministry of service to others as well as service to the pastor in administrating the needs of the church.
However, I do believe that there is Biblical precedent for the office of Deaconess in the church. This can be a ministry of service to others as well as service to the pastor in administrating the needs of the church.
That's likewise true. Although the first 12 were males, that fact doesn't necessarily mean all apostles should be male, any more than it means there can only be 12 apostles in perpetuity. The counterargument will, I suspect, be that apostles aren't pastors.
Paul does not call Junia an apostle, from my reading of the Scripture.
The KJV says "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."
They are of note among the apostles - but they are not called apostles themselves.
The KJV says "Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellow-prisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me."
They are of note among the apostles - but they are not called apostles themselves.
WOMEN PASTORS?
Do you mean women preachers, a preacher and a pastor does not necessarily mean the same thing?
A pastor is an elder, bishop, shepard and when scripture speaks of them it does so in the plural sense.
How can a women be a husband of one wife?
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office** of a bishop [one who looks diligently, sees-over, is a watch, sentry or scout], he desires a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man knows not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 1Tim 3: 1-7
The words pastor, elder and bishop are for all practical purposes synonymous terms in the New Testament.
4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. 5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Titus 1: 4-9
Do you mean women preachers, a preacher and a pastor does not necessarily mean the same thing?
A pastor is an elder, bishop, shepard and when scripture speaks of them it does so in the plural sense.
How can a women be a husband of one wife?
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office** of a bishop [one who looks diligently, sees-over, is a watch, sentry or scout], he desires a good work. 2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behavior, given to hospitality, apt to teach; 3Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous; 4One that rules well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity; 5(For if a man knows not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?) 6Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil. 1Tim 3: 1-7
The words pastor, elder and bishop are for all practical purposes synonymous terms in the New Testament.
4To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Savior. 5For this cause left I thee in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: 6If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. 7For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not self-willed, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; 8But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; 9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. Titus 1: 4-9
Emphasis added:laugh:
Acts 20:17,28-30
V17 -- Paul is addressing the elders of the Ephesian church.
V28 -- The Holy Spirit made them bishops (ASV; "overseers" -- KJV). Their job was to shepherd (NKJV; "feed"-- KJV; "tend" -- ASV) the flock. This uses the verb form of "pastor".
V29,30 -- Their duty to act as shepherds (pastors) is further described.
Clearly, all three terms are here used to describe the same men doing the same job in the local church.
V17 -- Paul is addressing the elders of the Ephesian church.
V28 -- The Holy Spirit made them bishops (ASV; "overseers" -- KJV). Their job was to shepherd (NKJV; "feed"-- KJV; "tend" -- ASV) the flock. This uses the verb form of "pastor".
V29,30 -- Their duty to act as shepherds (pastors) is further described.
Clearly, all three terms are here used to describe the same men doing the same job in the local church.
1 Peter 5:1-3
V1 -- Peter is addressing elders.
V2 -- Their work is to shepherd (NKJV; "tend" -- ASV; "feed" -- KJV) the flock. Again, the verb form of "pastor" or shepherd is used. They also serve as overseers (NKJV; exercise or take the "oversight" -- ASV, KJV). This is the verb form of bishop.
Clearly "elders," "pastors," and "bishops" in these passages are used interchangeably, referring to the same men in the same work. All three terms refer to an office in the local congregation, and are therefore identical in extent of jurisdiction (cf. Acts 20:17,28 to I Pet. 5:1-3; etc.). Their qualifications and work are identical.
V1 -- Peter is addressing elders.
V2 -- Their work is to shepherd (NKJV; "tend" -- ASV; "feed" -- KJV) the flock. Again, the verb form of "pastor" or shepherd is used. They also serve as overseers (NKJV; exercise or take the "oversight" -- ASV, KJV). This is the verb form of bishop.
Clearly "elders," "pastors," and "bishops" in these passages are used interchangeably, referring to the same men in the same work. All three terms refer to an office in the local congregation, and are therefore identical in extent of jurisdiction (cf. Acts 20:17,28 to I Pet. 5:1-3; etc.). Their qualifications and work are identical.
Scripture speaking of leaders as men instead of women is descriptive, not normative. This is because, duh, there would not have been female leaders accepted during Biblical times.
Paul's texts are directed to a certain people at a certain time. While they are still wildly relevant and applicable and continue to be inspired, they mean nothing to us today if we don't interpret them.
Paul's texts are directed to a certain people at a certain time. While they are still wildly relevant and applicable and continue to be inspired, they mean nothing to us today if we don't interpret them.
Posted this on two other posts of yours but Paul pointing to creation kind of makes it bigger than just the first century.