Baptists are killing themselves!

[go2church]

And why shouldn't catholicisim leave a bad taste in our mouths? They murdered our forefathers. They are offended because they won't own up to what they did. If they had the power, they would do it again. Most modern catholics are ignorant of their own doctrines or they would run from their cult.

Having catholics attend services is always good. They can hear the truth of Gods word and get saved. We do not hate catholics! We hate catholicisim. Believe what it teaches and you will end up in hell. But when you are interdenominational and allow all belief systems to worship freely with you, you are wrong and are unbiblical. You are clearly allowing error to creep into the church because what God says is no longer important. Only what men think! You say many of them come to Christ in your non denominational church. How do you know? Because the profess the name of Christ? That is the whole reason for the hodge podge of different beliefs. Drop doctrinal divisions and just luv Jesus :1_grouphug: .

I will admit that we should step lightly when dealing with catholics in order to show them the love of Christ. But give them the truth that will set them free. Don't join them and worship with them as if they are Christians. They are NOT! Church folks need to wake up and start standing again. If we are going to call ourselves baptists we need to stand like baptists. The world will hate us. But it hated Christ first!:jesus:

If the ignorance and venom of this post is indicative of your so called "love" please for all that is holy and just, don't love me!

BTW, if you are referring to the Catholic church it should be capitalized, otherwise catholic simply means universal

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

From the article it appears that they believe in Baptist distinctives, and claim to be Baptist but removed the name form the sign so as to "remove any obstacles".

In essence they are willing to misrepresent themselves in order to mislead unsuspecting people about who they are in order to give them an opportunity show their love?

They dont want people to think they are Baptist because that will turn some away but they are Baptist. Growing up my parents taught me this is lying. Their intent is to hide being what they are until a later time.

Lying and deceiving an unsuspecting public is not the asnwer to their problem. They could be getting out in the community and be involved in a loving way. Mow a lawn for an elderly person, repair the roof. deliver a washer and dryer for a single mom who has to spend countless hours at the public laundry facility with her kids. Start a homeless facility arranging for needed assitance such as temp housing, food, clothing etc. Serve the community and show the love of God. Removing the name is not only deceitful it is lazy.

 

[drfuss]

Many Christians come and belong to our church only because they: enjoy the worship service, receive spiritual food from the sermon and Bible study, enjoy the fellowship and the oppurtunities to serve. With these Christians, the church having a Baptist name has nothing to do with it. Some still come even though it is called a Baptist church.

The important thing is that they are Christians, not that it is a Baptist church. I am a Christian who just happens to belong to a Baptist church. My theology is scripture based, not denomination based.

 

[gb93433]

They dont want people to think they are Baptist because that will turn some away but they are Baptist. Growing up my parents taught me this is lying. Their intent is to hide being what they are until a later time.

According to your ways then you must post on the church building, "We are opposed to Catholics because they preach a false gospel." For many years Catholics have known Baptists as anti-Catholic. Is that a lie of you do not tell that truth?

When you share your faith do you tell them in some of your first words that if they do not accpet Jesus they are going to hell.

If you do notice in scripture that Jesus dealt with the Sadducees only using the Torah. With the Pharisees he used all of the OT. Is that wrong in that he did not use the entire Bible with the Sadducees. If you went to some countries as a missionary you would notice that they do not have the book of Revelation. Is that wrong?

 

[rbell]

I think the reality is that the church in question doesn't hold to the standards of most baptists.

Quote: Spencer’s sermons now feature PowerPoint presentations and clips from popular movies. A “worship team” that includes drummers and guitarists replaced the choir and organ music. End quote.

Where is the preaching and Godly music? On the outside it appears that this church is more interested in building it's numbers by entertaining people.

Also, the article refers to Baptists changing their name in order to distance themselves from the intolerable and unloving Baptists. I say that baptists for the most part (not all) are very tolerable. The word intolerable here refers in reality to uncompromising. Any Baptist that knowingly compromises scripture is not worthy of the name. Taking a stand for the truth will often be perceived as intolerable.

Remember the bible tells us to be seperate from apostasy. We will not join in with the melting pot that will become the one world religion described in the book of Revelation. It consists of charasmatics, pentacostals and inter-denominational churches. God wants us to be one as He and His Father are one. That is based upon truth.

When you throw in the ecumenical aspect of differing beliefs accompanied by "we all love Jesus so we can worship together", you have now entered what will become the one world religion.

Are they saved people? I don't doubt there are some that are. However most that fit into this catagory think they can lose their salvation which makes it a works based salvation. If you can't do anything to gain it, you can't do anything to lose it. They are normally characterized and unified by speaking in tounges, visions, being slain in the spirit, etc. Their unity is NOT based upon the truth of Gods Word.

You can usually spot this type of church by the type of worship music they have. Not to say that ALL music other than traditional hymns are wrong. There is some very Godly artists out there that edify God. The first sign of decline is the music standards. Godly music edifies God. Charasmatic, ecumenical worship music edifies man. It is lacks doctrine. Since in order to worship within the melting pot you have to drop the walls of division and build bridges of love, the music will consist of "Praise Him, Adore Him type music.

People of this persuasion think the old time hymns are fuddy duddy out dated out moded music. They have replaced traditional choirs and hymns with A “worship team” that includes drummers and guitarists.

Say what you will about traditional hymns but you have to admit that they are chock full of doctrine. They state what the bible portrays concerning the birth, burial, resurrection, blood, cross. salvation, etc.

I don't have a problem with different instruments being used in churches. I do take exception to drums. It is the content of the music and the testamony of the artist that is important and should be to everyone.

Music should be doctrinally correct if it is to be played in church since it is for God.

I used to be charasmatic and know first hand that the worship music was more for me than for God.

Those that are changing their names are doing so either because they don't fit into the traditional baptist distinctives anymore or never did.

I will state again that there are good Godly churches that are not baptist. But if you were and aren't anymore and you fall into the catagories listed above, you are on a slippery slope.

Ah, yes, the "God loves the 1950's" model. I figured this was where this was headed.

Our church has strong Biblical preaching, and music that spans from AD 300 (we have a great arrangement of "Of the Father's Love Begotten) to today. We use every instrument imaginable--from the organ to the bagpipe, to the ungodly, evil guitar.

Choirs are not mentioned in the New Testament. Neither are organs.

We do not sacrifice the rich theology of good hymns. But there are numerous hymns with rotten theology. There are also rotten praise songs, and some fantastic ones.

Our church does not seek to throw out something because it's a few years old. But neither does it condemn the "new song" that we can sing, simply because it's not old.

Much of your generalizations are extra-biblical and based on preference, not Scripture. "I don't like it" is a perfectly fine opinion to hold regarding that. "It is wrong" is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

 

[El_Guero]

Great post!

http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061209/COMMUNITY03/212090331

I believe as we get more and more politically correct and more compromising, we are losing what so many before us stood and died for.

from article.

I thought baptists were people of the word. Truth bearers. Even when it was uncomfortable you could always count on the baptists to stand their ground.

In a world where men are less men and we become sooo sensitive to everyone elses cultures that we cannot even say "Merry Christmas" in many of our malls, it is no wonder that baptist churches are filling up with all these liberal A.C.L.U. feminine type baptists.

I say "Let em go"! They don't deserve the name "Baptist".

We are diverse and yes we don't always get along. But we are who we are! If we succumb to this type of pressure we will be assimilated!

 

[El_Guero]

I am glad that your church has discovered: "Of the Father's Love Begotten" that truly beloved hymn of the early Church that had been lost for over 1600 years . . .

Was that what you meant?

Ah, yes, the "God loves the 1950's" model. I figured this was where this was headed.

Our church has strong Biblical preaching, and music that spans from AD 300 (we have a great arrangement of "Of the Father's Love Begotten) to today. We use every instrument imaginable--from the organ to the bagpipe, to the ungodly, evil guitar.

Choirs are not mentioned in the New Testament. Neither are organs.

We do not sacrifice the rich theology of good hymns. But there are numerous hymns with rotten theology. There are also rotten praise songs, and some fantastic ones.

Our church does not seek to throw out something because it's a few years old. But neither does it condemn the "new song" that we can sing, simply because it's not old.

Much of your generalizations are extra-biblical and based on preference, not Scripture. "I don't like it" is a perfectly fine opinion to hold regarding that. "It is wrong" is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

 

[rbell]

I am glad that your church has discovered: "Of the Father's Love Begotten" that truly beloved hymn of the early Church that had been lost for over 1600 years . . .

Was that what you meant?

Yep.

Of course, the melody was lost to history, but the words are incredible.

 

[El_Guero]

Wow . . .

I gotta come hear a whole church chanting in Greek with an Alabaman accent.

That has got to be something out of this world!

Merry Christmas!

Wayne

Yep.

Of course, the melody was lost to history, but the words are incredible.

 

[Soulman]

If the ignorance and venom of this post is indicative of your so called "love" please for all that is holy and just, don't love me!

BTW, if you are referring to the Catholic church it should be capitalized, otherwise catholic simply means universal

If you are coing to correct me then please do! But please correct what I am wrong about. Better yet, take your bible and show me I am wrong. BTW, I do love you!:thumbs:

 

[Soulman]

From the article it appears that they believe in Baptist distinctives, and claim to be Baptist but removed the name form the sign so as to "remove any obstacles".

In essence they are willing to misrepresent themselves in order to mislead unsuspecting people about who they are in order to give them an opportunity show their love?

They dont want people to think they are Baptist because that will turn some away but they are Baptist. Growing up my parents taught me this is lying. Their intent is to hide being what they are until a later time.

Lying and deceiving an unsuspecting public is not the asnwer to their problem. They could be getting out in the community and be involved in a loving way. Mow a lawn for an elderly person, repair the roof. deliver a washer and dryer for a single mom who has to spend countless hours at the public laundry facility with her kids. Start a homeless facility arranging for needed assitance such as temp housing, food, clothing etc. Serve the community and show the love of God. Removing the name is not only deceitful it is lazy.

When your right, your right!

 

[Soulman]

Ah, yes, the "God loves the 1950's" model. I figured this was where this was headed.

Our church has strong Biblical preaching, and music that spans from AD 300 (we have a great arrangement of "Of the Father's Love Begotten) to today. We use every instrument imaginable--from the organ to the bagpipe, to the ungodly, evil guitar.

Choirs are not mentioned in the New Testament. Neither are organs.

We do not sacrifice the rich theology of good hymns. But there are numerous hymns with rotten theology. There are also rotten praise songs, and some fantastic ones.

Our church does not seek to throw out something because it's a few years old. But neither does it condemn the "new song" that we can sing, simply because it's not old.

Much of your generalizations are extra-biblical and based on preference, not Scripture. "I don't like it" is a perfectly fine opinion to hold regarding that. "It is wrong" is a whole 'nother ball of wax.

I do not attack your individual church as I do not know it. Use what ever instruments you please to worship God. If it edifies Him you have it right. If it edifies you, it is wrong. I am not trying to turn this thread into a music debate. But I will say that when your worship music lacks biblical doctrine and is just a bunch of touchy feely praise him and adore him stuff, or is pure rock under the name christian, it is garbage!

If your church is uniting with others in the love of Christ rather than the truth of Gods word, it is unbiblical. If you are dropping your walls of division because the truth is not important and building bridges of love inorder to unite, you are wrong. Plain and simple!

If your church is luvin it up with Catholics and it is ok, you are wrong!

Don't get angry with the messenger. Show me with your bible that this behavior can be justified. I defy you to show me that this type of unity is biblical. Baptists for the most part that are changing their names are lilly livered compromisers void of any ability to stand up for what they believe. Not All! But most!

 

[rbell]

I do not attack your individual church as I do not know it. Use what ever instruments you please to worship God. If it edifies Him you have it right. If it edifies you, it is wrong. I am not trying to turn this thread into a music debate. But I will say that when your worship music lacks biblical doctrine and is just a bunch of touchy feely praise him and adore him stuff, or is pure rock under the name christian, it is garbage!

You don't? Sounds like an attack to me...especially unwise for two reasons:
1. It is dangerous to call something that God is doing "of satan," "garbage" or the like. Just look at Jesus, the Pharisees, and the "beelzebub" comments. There's some Bible for ya.
2. How can you presume to know if our worship here honors God? You don't know what we do or how we do it...save some examples I have given here.

If your church is uniting with others in the love of Christ rather than the truth of Gods word, it is unbiblical.

Ya' know, sometimes both are possible. If not, then I won't...but some folks seem to be unhappy unless they have somebody to look down on...preferably another Christian. That's no way to live.

Show me with your bible that this behavior can be justified...Baptists for the most part that are changing their names are lilly livered compromisers void of any ability to stand up for what they believe. Not All! But most!

1. So impugning character and calling fellow Christians names...that's Biblical? Please.
2. I'm glad you've interviewed most every Baptist church that has changed its name and understand its reasons, motives, and thought processes, plus can so very accurately assess its spiritual condition.

Don't get angry with the messenger.

First of all, I'm not. I pretty much laugh and go my way after typing anything here...life's too short.
But I do think we should all run our "messages" through this filter: "Is God angry with the message, or the messenger?" That's much more important. And since I believe in local church autonomy, I'm gonna spend my time serving mine, and less time slamming yours.

 

[Soulman]

Quote by Rbell: "You don't? Sounds like an attack to me...especially unwise for two reasons:
1. It is dangerous to call something that God is doing "of satan," "garbage" or the like. Just look at Jesus, the Pharisees, and the "beelzebub" comments. There's some Bible for ya.
2. How can you presume to know if our worship here honors God? You don't know what we do or how we do it...save some examples I have given here." End quote

1. It is an attack or wake up call to churches that fit into the above catagory. I call NOTHING that God is doing of Satan. It is what it is. The music I refer to such as "Christian rock" IS NOT OF GOD! Hard heavy metal type and hard rock "Christian music" is garbage and should have no place in real christiandom. It appeals to the flesh and simply mimics the world. How are we to be seperate and unspotted by the world when we copy everything they do?

2. I did not attack your particular church. As you state, I don't know your church. I said IF you fall into the catagory.

Lets talk about calling fellow christians names for a minute. Are they fellow christians? The ecumenical charasmatic interdenominational crowd sound good. They outwardly appear to be preaching the gospel. (watered down as it is). However, most of these groups think they can lose their salvation or it needs to be maintained. (Topic for another thread) But they don't understand what real salvation is. How do I know?

These groups of so called christians are going to be the ones that will make up the one world apostate church. After the rapture they will be LEFT BEHIND. Not all because God can be found if there is a love for the truth. But most will be left behind. Left behind = unsaved! So according to the bible it would be wrong to assume most of the people in these type churches are saved. I don't judge any persons salvation. But I can see through the word that most of christiandom will be absorbed into the global system. The global system is Satanic. What does this make the churches involved in the movement ? They are run by Satans ministers of righteousness to deceive and seduce the multitudes. They have a different spirit as Satan is an angel of light.
Look at bible. God will send strong delusion that they will believe a lie. If it were possible even the elect would be deceived.

The true church of God doesn't only encompass baptists. Alot of baptists have gone down the tube as well. The true church encompasses like minded unified believers that hold the truth of Gods word above all else. They believe in one faith and one baptisim. They do not believe in many roads to heaven. They believe in one mediator between God and man.

Every one of us will be accountable for his walk with God. Don't think you can stand there and get away with "my church lied to me" stuff.

You must seek the truth that will set you free.
You must search the scriptures to ensure you are really saved.
You are responsible to worship God in spirit AND in TRUTH.
You are responsible to study the scriptures to ensure you are being taught truth.
You are responsible to SEPERATE from false teaching no matter how good it sounds.
You are responsible to walk in light and not mix with darkness further blurring the lines of truth and folly.
You are responsible to walk as children of light.
You are responsible to follow Christ and not men!

God gave us His word. It is about time men start studying it instead of following teachers having itching ears. In other words get into a church where you are not comfortable. Step out of your comfort zone. The flesh is opposed to the things of God. A little discomfort may be a good indicator that you are on the right track. We will be held without excuse!

 

[guitarpreacher]

Quote by Rbell: "You don't? Sounds like an attack to me...especially unwise for two reasons:
1. It is dangerous to call something that God is doing "of satan," "garbage" or the like. Just look at Jesus, the Pharisees, and the "beelzebub" comments. There's some Bible for ya.
2. How can you presume to know if our worship here honors God? You don't know what we do or how we do it...save some examples I have given here." End quote

1. It is an attack or wake up call to churches that fit into the above catagory. I call NOTHING that God is doing of Satan. It is what it is. The music I refer to such as "Christian rock" IS NOT OF GOD! Hard heavy metal type and hard rock "Christian music" is garbage and should have no place in real christiandom. It appeals to the flesh and simply mimics the world. How are we to be seperate and unspotted by the world when we copy everything they do?

2. I did not attack your particular church. As you state, I don't know your church. I said IF you fall into the catagory.

Lets talk about calling fellow christians names for a minute. Are they fellow christians? The ecumenical charasmatic interdenominational crowd sound good. They outwardly appear to be preaching the gospel. (watered down as it is). However, most of these groups think they can lose their salvation or it needs to be maintained. (Topic for another thread) But they don't understand what real salvation is. How do I know?

These groups of so called christians are going to be the ones that will make up the one world apostate church. After the rapture they will be LEFT BEHIND. Not all because God can be found if there is a love for the truth. But most will be left behind. Left behind = unsaved! So according to the bible it would be wrong to assume most of the people in these type churches are saved. I don't judge any persons salvation. But I can see through the word that most of christiandom will be absorbed into the global system. The global system is Satanic. What does this make the churches involved in the movement ? They are run by Satans ministers of righteousness to deceive and seduce the multitudes. They have a different spirit as Satan is an angel of light.
Look at bible. God will send strong delusion that they will believe a lie. If it were possible even the elect would be deceived.

The true church of God doesn't only encompass baptists. Alot of baptists have gone down the tube as well. The true church encompasses like minded unified believers that hold the truth of Gods word above all else. They believe in one faith and one baptisim. They do not believe in many roads to heaven. They believe in one mediator between God and man.

Every one of us will be accountable for his walk with God. Don't think you can stand there and get away with "my church lied to me" stuff.

You must seek the truth that will set you free.
You must search the scriptures to ensure you are really saved.
You are responsible to worship God in spirit AND in TRUTH.
You are responsible to study the scriptures to ensure you are being taught truth.
You are responsible to SEPERATE from false teaching no matter how good it sounds.
You are responsible to walk in light and not mix with darkness further blurring the lines of truth and folly.
You are responsible to walk as children of light.
You are responsible to follow Christ and not men!

God gave us His word. It is about time men start studying it instead of following teachers having itching ears. In other words get into a church where you are not comfortable. Step out of your comfort zone. The flesh is opposed to the things of God. A little discomfort may be a good indicator that you are on the right track. We will be held without excuse!

Lots of opnion, most of which stinks, but hey, you're entitled. Nothing you can back up with Scripture.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

According to your ways then you must post on the church building, "We are opposed to Catholics because they preach a false gospel." For many years Catholics have known Baptists as anti-Catholic. Is that a lie of you do not tell that truth?

Baptists are not now nor have they ever been "anti-catholic". Baptist are not opposed to catholics. Catholics are people and Baptists always desire to see them come to an actual saving knowledge of Jesus Christ based on his work on the cross alone. Baptists do oppose false teaching of any kind. Opposing false teaching and removing the name Baptist off the sign to mislead people about who you are is apples and oranges.

When you share your faith do you tell them in some of your first words that if they do not accpet Jesus they are going to hell.

When I share my faith I always tell people why they need Jesus within the first ten minutes. And that does include and eternity without God in hell.

If you do notice in scripture that Jesus dealt with the Sadducees only using the Torah. With the Pharisees he used all of the OT. Is that wrong in that he did not use the entire Bible with the Sadducees.

This again has nothing to do with the op. Churches that remove the name Baptist form the sign do so to withhold information for the purpose of deceiving them. That has nothing to do with what Jesus taught from.

If you went to some countries as a missionary you would notice that they do not have the book of Revelation. Is that wrong?

You continue to make irrelevent examples. However if Jesus or the missionaries did what they did with the same intent these churches do then I would say they were wrong.

Cursed be he that doth the work of the lord deceitfully; Jeremiah 48:10

 

[guitarpreacher]

Only thing I can figure is ya'll are too dumb to understand it or too hard-hearted to care about lost people.

 

[guitarpreacher]

Romans 14:4 "Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let him judge whether they are right or wrong. And with the Lord’s help, they will do what is right and will receive his approval."

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

Romans 14:4 "Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let him judge whether they are right or wrong. And with the Lord’s help, they will do what is right and will receive his approval."

Huh?

 

[rbell]

Churches that remove the name Baptist form the sign do so to withhold information for the purpose of deceiving them.

I have no doubt that some are being deceitful. But I personally don't feel that anyone can possibly make this blanketing of a statement. You can't possibly know every reason that every church decides to do this.

Local church autonomy applies here IMO. Let God deal with them.