Before the Foundation of the World

[AustinC]

What can we glean about election, predestination and God's Sovereign ordination from Revelation 13:7-8?

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

 

[Alcott]

Just that the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man are not enemies in His Word. So they should be friends. And nobody has to reconcile friends. Even if you can't explain their friendship.

 

[Iconoclast]

We see that the triune God set His love on the objects of his covenant salvation and covenant redemption before the world was.
We see the Lamb was ordained to die a covenant death on behalf of His people before the world was
God had considered the whole world that's fallen in Adam and elected a multitude in the Son.
The Son is going to die for them
Jesus has entered into his role as mediator before the world was as the lamb who was slain.
The love of the Triune God is from everlasting to everlasting.

 

[Iconoclast]

God is fully aware of the spiritual battle and the suffering and the persecution of the saints that will take place.
God reveals to us progressively his Covenant Love in order that we may lay hold of the promises of it in times of persecution or dark Providence in life.
We are to keep our eyes fixed on him.
In this we also learn that not one thing can take place that God does not ordain to take place although he is not the cause of it necessarily.
We learn clearly that there are enemies of the Cross and enemies of God and His purpose that will come against the Saints and the truth of God.

 

[Iconoclast]

We also learn non Covenant members have a religion they hate the truth.
They are men destitute of the truth so they look to rewrite the wording of scripture and oppose the plan and purpose of God which is only revealed to the church.
it's made manifest to the church we learn in Ephesians 3:9-11 so it shouldn't surprise us here that these religious individuals are at war against God ,His people, The Tabernacle,His word, everything about God they hate..
As Revelation has been progressively revealed but it is certain we have to be diligent not only in our Bible intake but also to defend the truth against those who seek to tear down the word of God and replace it with carnal Novelties and false teaching.

 

[Brightfame52]

Just that the sovereignty of God and the responsibility of man are not enemies in His Word. So they should be friends. And nobody has to reconcile friends. Even if you can't explain their friendship.

What possibly was mans responsibility before the foundation of the world friend ?

 

[Brightfame52]

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In this we also learn that not one thing can take place that God does not ordain to take place although he is not the cause of it necessarily.

What could God had ordained that He wasnt the cause of ? If He wasnt the cause who was ?

 

[37818]

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What could God had ordained that He wasnt the cause of ? If He wasnt the cause who was ?

Ah, God the puppet Master.

 

[AustinC]

Revelation 13:7-8

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

Explain how God is the cause.

Here we see God allows and gives evil the authority to act. Explain how you, as a Christ follower, can make God a puppet master and accuse God of causing evil by expressing His ordained allowance.

 

[Yeshua1]

Ah, God the puppet Master.

That would not be the God of Calvinists!

 

[Brightfame52]

Before the foundation of the world, the elect children of God, were in Christ Jesus that early, which grace was given them then 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

 

[AustinC]

Before the foundation of the world, the elect children of God, were in Christ Jesus that early, which grace was given them then 2 Tim 1:9

9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Does it apply to the unsaved, they were not in the book of life from the foundation of the world?

Revelation 13:7-8

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

 

[Brightfame52]

Does it apply to the unsaved, they were not in the book of life from the foundation of the world?

Revelation 13:7-8

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

You lost me on that !

 

[AustinC]

Does it apply to the unsaved, they were not in the book of life from the foundation of the world?

Revelation 13:7-8

Also it was allowed to make war on the saints and to conquer them. And authority was given it over every tribe and people and language and nation, and all who dwell on earth will worship it, everyone whose name has not been written before the foundation of the world in the book of life of the Lamb who was slain.

You lost me on that !

How did I lose you. I provided the text and asked a direct question from the text of scripture. Read the text and understand.

 

[Iconoclast]

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What could God had ordained that He wasnt the cause of ? If He wasnt the cause who was ?

God has ordained that sin and death would enter in.
Satan and Adam were the cause of sin,resulting in a fallen and cursed creation,as God promised would happen if disobedience took place .
If anything takes place it was ordained to take place.
That does not mean God is the cause.
If a person drinks a bottle of Drano, and expires....it was ordained to take place at the exact time it happens.....but God dId not force or cause him to do it.
God does not cause the sin or evil, but uses it for His purposes.

 

[Brightfame52]

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That does not mean God is the cause.

I understand what you are saying, but tell me who is the first cause of Adam and satan ?

 

[37818]

. . . Jesus has entered into his role as mediator before the world was as the lamb who was slain. . . .

Not according to the word of God. 1 Peter 1:19-20, ". . . But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, . . ." And 2Timothy 1:9, ". . . Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, . . ." There is a difference.

 

[Iconoclast]

Not according to the word of God. 1 Peter 1:19-20, ". . . But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, . . ." And 2Timothy 1:9, ". . . Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, . . ." There is a difference.

Creation could not have taken place without Jesus as mediator already in place
I am not sure of what you are objecting to?

 

[Iconoclast]

Ah, God the puppet Master.

What do you mean by this comment?

 

[Iconoclast]

Not according to the word of God. 1 Peter 1:19-20, ". . . But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, . . ." And 2Timothy 1:9, ". . . Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, . . ." There is a difference.

yes...according to the word of God on all counts.