Being Ignorant of God's Righteousness

[KenH]

You don't even trust what Calvin or other calvinists' say.

I keep trying to tell you and others that I am not a Calvinist, but, seemingly, y'all are not hearing me.

 

[KenH]

if we bring nothing but faith,

So you do claim that faith is something that the sinner brings, that the sinner brings his faith, not something that is granted by God to the sinner. If so, then you are synergistic. Synergistic is false, it does not give all of the glory to God as synergism claims that man brings something of his own into the process.

 

[Silverhair]

I keep trying to tell you and others that I am not a Calvinist, but, seemingly, y'all are not hearing me.

I did see where you call yourself a "sovereign grace Baptist". Well the problem is that you could call yourself Donald Duck but if you keep holding to the calvinist view that is how I see you.

 

[KenH]

Well the problem is that you could call yourself Donald Duck but if you keep holding to the calvinist view that is how I see you.

Then stop sounding frustrated when I don't line up with what you consider to be Calvinism.

 

[Silverhair]

So you do claim that faith is something that the sinner brings, that the sinner brings his faith, not something that is granted by God to the sinner. If so, then you are synergistic. Synergistic is false, it does not give all of the glory to God as synergism claims that man brings something of his own into the process.

How does one humbling themselves before God and trusting in the finished work of Christ Jesus diminish the glory of God. He is the one that has established the condition of salvation or do you not believe the bible?

Eph 1:13 In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 who is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory.

Rom 10:13 For "WHOEVER CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD SHALL BE SAVED."

Just curious but why would one call on Christ Jesus for salvation if they did not believe He could and would save them?

 

[Silverhair]

Then stop sounding frustrated when I don't line up with what you consider to be Calvinism.

Not frustrated with you not lining up with calvinism but rather when you do not line up with the bible.

 

[KenH]

Just curious but why would one call on Christ Jesus for salvation if they did not believe He could and would save them?

They do so when God grants them repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts of the Apostles 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts of the Apostles 11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

(emphasis mine)

 

[KenH]

Not frustrated with you not lining up with calvinism but rather when you do not line up with the bible.

You sure do throw "Calvinism" in my face a whole lot for someone who claims to not be frustrated that I don't do so.

 

[KenH]

He is the one that has established the condition of salvation

There - you just proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are a conditionalist.

The Law of Moses was conditional - God said if they(ancient Israel) will, then He shall.

The gospel of Christ is declarative - God said He will, and we(His elect) shall.

 

[JonC]

I keep trying to tell you and others that I am not a Calvinist, but, seemingly, y'all are not hearing me.

I think the problem is labeling. People have different ideas about Calvinism.

Your posted view lines up with Calvinism as far as Baptists go (which may cause confusion with some people). It's like Primitive Baptists, who strongly insist they are not Calvinists (although if you compare their soteriology there is really no significant difference).

But I'm like you. Rather than lumping people into a theological camp give people the benefit of explaining their own beliefs.

 

[Silverhair]

They do so when God grants them repentance toward God and faith toward the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts of the Apostles 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts of the Apostles 11:18 Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

(emphasis mine)

Jesus saves, but whom does He save

Jesus saves all who will receive His gift of salvation. Jesus saves all those who fully trust in His sacrifice alone as the payment for sin (Joh_3:16-18; Act_16:30-31). While Jesus’ sacrifice was perfectly sufficient to pay for the sins of all humanity, Jesus only saves those who personally receive Him as Lord and savior. (Joh_1:12).

Ken what does the whole verse show us

Act 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Peter was telling the assembly in Jerusalem about the salvation of Cornelius and that is what prompted the comment you quoted.

Php 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake,
Php 1:30 having the same conflict which you saw in me and now hear is in me.

These words were written to the saints in Philippi. The apostle wanted the Philippians to consider their sufferings for Christ as an honour, and an important means of good, and to rejoice in them.

 

[DaveXR650]

From what I have ascertained, it appears that there are Calvinistic/Reformed churches that may teach that salvation is monergistic but afterward they go heavy into works to "prove" that one has been saved, to "evaluate" themselves. If God "evaluates" me, even now after being saved, based on me, then I am doomed. I thank God that he "evaluates" me as He does His Son - that I am perfect because Christ is perfect, and God has placed me in Him and clothed me with His perfect righteousness.

You are correct. As much as I love the Puritans, they do this so much that it can lead to depression if you're not careful.

 

[Silverhair]

You sure do throw "Calvinism" in my face a whole lot for someone who claims to not be frustrated that I don't do so.

Did you miss the part about you not lining up with the bible. I refer to you as a calvinist as you do seem to hold to much of what has come from many of them. And they do not all hold to all the same things so you do fit into that mold.

 

[JonC]

but afterward they go heavy into works to "prove" that one has been saved, to "evaluate" themselves. If God "evaluates" me, even now after being saved, based on me, then I am doomed. I thank God that he "evaluates" me as He does His Son - that I am perfect because Christ is perfect, and God has placed me in Him and clothed me with His perfect righteousness.

Do you think the verse these Calvinists have in mind is 2 Corinthians 13:5 (Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?)?

 

[Silverhair]

Do you think the verse these Calvinists have in mind is 2 Corinthians 13:5 (Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?)?

Is this perhaps how some of our current calvinists see themselves, that they have to do good works to prove that they are saved. If memory serves Paul Washer indicated that in one of his videos.

 

[DaveXR650]

Is this perhaps how some of our current calvinists see themselves, that they have to do good works to prove that they are saved. If memory serves Paul Washer indicated that in one of his videos.

Yes, you are right. Although I would maybe explain it a little differently. The Puritans did that, and Paul Washer and Martyn Lloyd Jones and a lot of others took that position in one way or another. Richard Baxter even went farther. You can overdue anything though and you can engage in "morbid introspection" until you get depressed. But nowadays, most people have such high self esteem they could benefit from a little morbid introspection.

 

[Silverhair]

Yes, you are right. Although I would maybe explain it a little differently. The Puritans did that, and Paul Washer and Martyn Lloyd Jones and a lot of others took that position in one way or another. Richard Baxter even went farther. You can overdue anything though and you can engage in "morbid introspection" until you get depressed. But nowadays, most people have such high self esteem they could benefit from a little morbid introspection.

You mean that you don't think your perfect in every way?

 

[DaveXR650]

Well I was talking about other people. I achieved sinless perfection last Thursday.

 

[KenH]

Jesus saves all those who fully trust in His sacrifice alone as the payment for sin

Which is every one for whom Christ died - God's elect.

"To say that God the Father has purposed the salvation of all mankind, that God the Son died with the express intention of saving the whole human race, and that God the Holy Spirit is now seeking to win the world to Christ; when, as a matter of common observation, it is apparent that the great majority of our fellowmen are dying in sin, and passing into a hopeless eternity; is to say that God the Father is disappointed, that God the Son is dissatisfied, and that God the Holy Spirit is defeated. We have stated the issue baldly, but there is no escaping the conclusion. To argue that God is “trying His best” to save all mankind, but that the majority of men will not let Him save them, is to insist that the will of the Creator is impotent, and that the will of the creature is omnipotent. To throw the blame, as many do, upon the Devil, does not remove the difficulty, for if Satan is defeating the purpose of God, then, Satan is Almighty and God is no longer the Supreme Being."

- excerpt from Arthur W. Pink's The Sovereignty of God

 

[KenH]

Do you think the verse these Calvinists have in mind is 2 Corinthians 13:5 (Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you—unless indeed you fail the test?)?

"prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you; by which he means, that if they took a survey of things in their own souls, it would appear that Christ was in them; not as he is in all the world, filling heaven and earth with his presence; or as he is in every rational creature, as the Creator and author of the light of nature; but in a special and spiritual manner, by his Spirit and grace; the Father reveals him in his people, as the foundation of their hope of glory."

- from John Gill's Bible commentary on 2 Corinthians 13:5