Bennett Fires Back Against Racism Charges

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Marcia:
Bennett was wrong in what he said that the crime rate would go down -- that was based on an assumption that more blacks commit crimes but statistics do not back it up. There may be more blacks in prisons but
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />During the 1990s, whites committed 56 percent of violent crimes and 62 percent of felonies in the United States, according to Justice Department statistics."
http://www.isteve.com/Crime_Imprisonment_Rates_by_Race.htm

I heard on TV that 70% of crimes in the US are committed by white people. But more blacks end up in prison.

I tried to do searches but either the stats were for those imprisoned (not for those convicted) or so many disgusting white supremacist sites came up that I quit. I don't want to throw up my dinner.

Bennett, the "Book of Virutes" man turned out to be a gambler. No matter how you look at his statement, it has a racist tinge to it. </font>[/QUOTE]Take those statistics with respect to the percentages of the population, break them down by age, gender, and race and see what you get. You'll find a much higher incidence of crime among young black males.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Originally posted by Marcia:
No, I don't care that Bennett ended his statement like that. I think that it doesn't undo his earlier statement, which I do not think was taken out of context. He was saying more crimes are committed by blacks, which is not true.

His first statement didn't need undoing. It was a George Soros garbage website that took it out of context, in yet another completey asenine attempt to make conservatives look bad.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Within that, you have life's winners and life's losers. We have various minority groups who, by their very definition of being minority, are losers -- and they are losers not because they are losers. They're losers because the powerful have determined that they're going to be losers. And no matter what those losers do they will never escape the bonds of loserdom. They will never escape the bonds of minority status. They will never escape the bonds of economic inequality, because there are too many obstacles set in their way. The deck is stacked against them. This is the foundation of the civil rights movement, folks. The foundation of the civil rights movement is that this country is unfair and unjust by its very structure! By its very existence as put together and assembled by the Founding Fathers. This country is essentially unfair and unjust, and the civil rights movement will never ever proclaim that we have made amends for whatever past transgressions or that there is equality because they would go out of business. They'll never believe it possible anyway because they don't like the structure of this country. As a result -- I'll move forward here a number of years -- there are now certain things that you cannot say. There are certain things that you cannot think, particularly and especially if they happen to be truthful. If that truth offends the sensibilities of liberals who have created political correctness, you're going to be in deep doo-doo. You are.

LINK

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
... I tried to do searches but either the stats were for those imprisoned (not for those convicted) or so many disgusting white supremacist sites came up that I quit. I don't want to throw up my dinner. ...

In this country people in prison are there because they were convicted. "Prison" doesn't include detention prior to arraignment.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Bro. Curtis:
... There are certain things that you cannot think, particularly and especially if they happen to be truthful. If that truth offends the sensibilities of liberals who have created political correctness, you're going to be in deep doo-doo. ...

That's the truth!

 

[church mouse guy]

Another thing--Baptists think that gambling is a sin, but Bennett is a Catholic and Catholics do not think that gambling is a sin, so Bennett did not sin in the eyes of his church. Nor did he do anything wrong legally. Afterall, the liberals also say that gambling is harmless and that abortion is just a sad fact of life and that drugs are a personal choice and that there is nothing wrong with sodomy. Bennett is against drugs, abortion and sodomy and the sort of alcoholism that we see in Teddy Kennedy.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Dragoon68:
... I tried to do searches but either the stats were for those imprisoned (not for those convicted) or so many disgusting white supremacist sites came up that I quit. I don't want to throw up my dinner. ...

In this country people in prison are there because they were convicted. "Prison" doesn't include detention prior to arraignment. </font>[/QUOTE]Statistically, you are more likely to go to prison if you are black. The facts still are: more white commit crime than blacks overall and Bennett's statement assumed more blacks commit crimes.

 

[Filmproducer]

Take those statistics with respect to the percentages of the population, break them down by age, gender, and race and see what you get. You'll find a much higher incidence of crime among young black males.

No you don't. You find that more black males are convicted and sentenced. There are many reasons for this, and MANY, MANY studies. I will post them sometime tomorrow when I have a chance. (I have quite a few references, as I have studied this topic extensively)

We must take into account several factors when looking at crime stats. The prison population is just ONE aspect. First of all, cities are more prone to have convictions and sentencing of criminals. That is not to say that small towns and rural areas do not, but studies have proven that cities are more aggressive in PROSECUTING crime. It is also widely known that crime rates seem to rise as income lowers. (i.e. more crime in low income areas)Now if crime is more aggressively prosecuted in cities vs. rural areas, and more crime is found in low income areas, then it must be taken into account that in these areas the African American population is higher. Another aspect that must be taken into account is racial profiling. Like it or not it happens, I have many personal instances I can relate if need be. Now this is not to say that IF a crime is found throught the practice of racial profiling, that it should be overlooked. What can be said is that by aggressively singling out people based on race, you will find more criminals than if you did not. I am positive that if whites were racially profiled more crimes would be uncovered. In addition, conviction rates and sentencing need to be looked at. A black man charged with a first time offense, who has a majority white jury is more likely to be convicted than a white man charged with a first time offense with the same or similar jury makeup. Now this is not to say that he was convicted unfairly, but that stereotypes of the African Americans COULD BE a factor in the jury deliberations. Of course, this is subconsciously, not overtly.

 

[Bunyon]

"No you don't. You find that more black males are convicted and sentenced. There are many reasons for this, and MANY, MANY studies. I will post them sometime tomorrow when I have a chance. (I have quite a few references, as I have studied this topic extensively)""
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yea right. More excuses. Your enableing is part of the problem and not part of the solution. I used to be a police office. I can tell you the reason the prisons are full of black men is not because of white racism among cops, judges, or juries.
The things you describe might explain a few precentage points. But were are talking a GREAT disparity in the precentage of blacks in prision as compared to whites and other races. BTW, I did racially profile whites. Whenever, I saw a white person in a black neighborhood known for drugs in the wee hours of the morning, I stopped them, found drugs, usually, and arrested them.


BTW. Where have you been? How is the movie comming along?

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
Take those statistics with respect to the percentages of the population, break them down by age, gender, and race and see what you get. You'll find a much higher incidence of crime among young black males.

No you don't. You find that more black males are convicted and sentenced. There are many reasons for this, and MANY, MANY studies. I will post them sometime tomorrow when I have a chance. (I have quite a few references, as I have studied this topic extensively) ...

Sure you do! Crime in our judicial system is confirmed by conviction. Allegations of crime, suspicions of crime, charges that don't result in convictions, etc. don't matter. Those are the statistics. The fact is, person for person, there's a higher rate of violent crime among members of the black race in our country. Presumptions that one race is treated less favorably than another are racist.

 

[Bunyon]

Marcia,

"He was saying more crimes are committed by blacks, which is not true."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marcia, considering that blacks are only one seventh the size of the white population they commit way more crime proportionlly speaking. To say whites have just as many one welfare or have just as many convictions is a common trick to hide the fact that blacks are way higher on the list when their much smaller population is considered. For such a small population to contribute more than half the prisioners is nothing short of astounding!

 

[Bunyon]

I think what Bennet was saying is even if it is true, it is a nowhere argument only a hatful idiot would make for no constructive reason.

Look at it this way, I could say that if we aborted all asians we would have less PhD's. And more opporunity for whites and other races.
That is true, because Asians are the majority at harvard now. But it is a nowhere stupid argument, why would I make it? That is what Bennet was saying. He was saying there is no amount of true facts that would ever justify such an argument.

[ October 01, 2005, 10:49 PM: Message edited by: Bunyon ]

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
... We must take into account several factors when looking at crime stats. The prison population is just ONE aspect. First of all, cities are more prone to have convictions and sentencing of criminals. That is not to say that small towns and rural areas do not, but studies have proven that cities are more aggressive in PROSECUTING crime. It is also widely known that crime rates seem to rise as income lowers. (i.e. more crime in low income areas)Now if crime is more aggressively prosecuted in cities vs. rural areas, and more crime is found in low income areas, then it must be taken into account that in these areas the African American population is higher. Another aspect that must be taken into account is racial profiling. Like it or not it happens, I have many personal instances I can relate if need be. Now this is not to say that IF a crime is found throught the practice of racial profiling, that it should be overlooked. What can be said is that by aggressively singling out people based on race, you will find more criminals than if you did not. I am positive that if whites were racially profiled more crimes would be uncovered. In addition, conviction rates and sentencing need to be looked at. A black man charged with a first time offense, who has a majority white jury is more likely to be convicted than a white man charged with a first time offense with the same or similar jury makeup. Now this is not to say that he was convicted unfairly, but that stereotypes of the African Americans COULD BE a factor in the jury deliberations. Of course, this is subconsciously, not overtly.

I respect your opinion but I don't buy it!

This is old argument that blacks don't get fair and equal treatment in our justice system because they're black and that the proof for this is that there are more of them, person for person, in prison. This is what people want us to believe as an excuse for the misbehavior that results in the convictions. They actually want the law to be more lenient with one race verses another rather than equal. Race mongers use this "benefits for votes" scheme to hold onto their power base. It is pure baloney in this day an age!

The jury selection process greatly favors the defendants and the jury pools are made up of a wide cross section of citizens. It's a complete myth that blacks are routinely convicted by all white juries. Of course, it's racist, in itself to assume that whites would judge blacks based upon race rather than upon evidence. Jurists of all races, genders, and ages most typically take they duty very seriously and put aside any preconceived notions they may have.

Most people that have worked in any part of the justice system from law enforcement to prosecution to detention no there's a much greater problem with violent crime among young black males in America than any other race. They know it's not because blacks are blacks. They know it's not because one race is better than another.

It's because there's a very serious deterioration of values and morals. They know the roots are in failing family structure of so many black communities and especially so in some of the larger cities with depressed neighborhoods. They know this is why so many young black males find themselves in a hopeless sprial of trouble with the law. It is not a race problem as much as it is a culture problem. It is not a problem limited to blacks either and may well be increasing among other races and groups of various national origins at an alarming rate. The consequences, however, are tragic for much of black community and the nation as a whole.

We all need to understand and face the truth. Black leaders need to deal with the truth and help solve the problem at its roots. Any that try seem to be immediately put down by the race mongers.

Blacks deserve to be free of their last bonds which are of these evil race mongers that hold them back from breaking free of the required thinking, actions, and status. Those that have do just as well as people of any other race just as any non-racist would expect.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
Marcia,

"He was saying more crimes are committed by blacks, which is not true."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marcia, considering that blacks are only one seventh the size of the white population they commit way more crime proportionlly speaking. To say whites have just as many one welfare or have just as many convictions is a common trick to hide the fact that blacks are way higher on the list when their much smaller population is considered. For such a small population to contribute more than half the prisioners is nothing short of astounding!

Correct!

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
... I used to be a police office. I can tell you the reason the prisons are full of black men is not because of white racism among cops, judges, or juries.

The things you describe might explain a few precentage points. But were are talking a GREAT disparity in the precentage of blacks in prision as compared to whites and other races. ...

Exactly!

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Robert George, an African-American, Republican editorial writer for the New York Post, agrees that Bennett's comments were not meant as racist. But he worries they feed into stereotypes of Republicans as insensitive. "His overall point about not making broad sociological claims and so forth, that was a legitimate point," George said. "But it seems to me someone with Bennett's intelligence … should know better the impact of his words and sort of thinking these things through before he speaks."


WASHINGTON (AP) - The White House on Friday criticized former Education Secretary William Bennett for remarks linking the crime rate and the abortion of black babies.

"The president believes the comments were not appropriate," White House press secretary Scott McClellan said.


He has already lost confidence from a lot of people because of his gambling and those who
are left to defend him are an apologetic few
trying to avert eyes and responsibility for his
remarks and weak apology and counter attack on the
media(same old..same old).

He put the political bullets in the gun himself
with the gambling and now this he has lost even
more of his existing conservative constituency.

The World War II saying still holds: "The slip of a lip can sink a ship."

What he said was extremely unwise and gives hint
to his true heart ..but then came the disclaimer
as if he knew what he said was wrong...sorry not
enough and too weak.

He may have parlayed others peoples words for a book called "Book of Virtues" (none orginally were his)but he is showing true colors with his gambling problem and closet stereotype of others.

He fell right in it! like those who are apologizing for him and trying to make excuses for him.


People who have studied long and hard have pointed to socio economic factors as a primary cause of criminal behavior. Bennett didn't say
that aborting all poor children would reduce the
crime rate,but instead aborting all black children
- rich, poor or middle-income is the way to lower
the crime rate.

With the flames rising over his statements, Bennett, who preaches much about taking personal responsibility, isn't doing that. Apparently, that advice is for others.

He has got to blame others..avert the eyes...get
his apologists inflamed.

Bottom line what he did was unwise and puts conservatives in a bad light.

Our wonderful and good African-American brothers
and sisters in Christ deserve better as do all
African-Americans created in Gods image.

Sincerely
Aslanspal

 

[Bunyon]

If Bennet had a pattern of unfortunate statements, you might have a point, but he does not. You are contributing to a big problem, the willingness of some to crucify one based on the slightest questionable comment. Folks who show a propensity to do this, show way more of whats in their heart than Bennet did with his one comment.

PS Are you looking forward to "The Chronicles of Narnia" movie as much as I am?

 

[Filmproducer]

Yea right. More excuses. Your enableing is part of the problem and not part of the solution. I used to be a police office. I can tell you the reason the prisons are full of black men is not because of white racism among cops, judges, or juries

You misunderstand me. first of all I am not trying to enable anyone. Secondly, I am not blaming high African American prison populations on racist judges, juries, cops, prosecuters, etc.

Now what I was trying top say, is that based on where crime is most aggressively prosecuted, (i.e. low income urban areas), it is obvious that more African American men would be arrested/ convicted, etc. Secondly, as far a racial profiling, I am not calling for leniency of crime in any way. I was pointing out that actively searching for crime through profiling will defintely turn up crimes that would not have otherwise been found. I also was not insinuating that whites are never profiled or that blacks are profiled all the time, or are unjustly accused. Black men are defintely more heavily profiled than white, again I have show spcific examples of profiling based on race alone.

As far as sentencing is concerned I was pointing out that there are disparages. Take substance abuse for example, specifically drunk driving and drug possession. as of 1990 drunk drivers were responsible for 22,000 deaths annually, and overall alcohol-related deaths are about 100,000 annually. Whereas, drug related deaths, through overdose, AIDS, or violence are approximately 21,000.

Again, as of 1990, drunk drivers are predominately white males, specifically 78% of arrests for DUI. Generally they are charged with misdemeanors and sentences typically involve fines, license suspension, and community service. on the other hand, many drug arests are in low income, predominately black neighborhoods. they are predominately charged with felonies and sentences to incarceration.

I understand that alcohol is not illegal, however driving while intoxicated is. You may not consider this disparaging, but I do. This is just one instance of of what I was trying to say. This is NOT to say that drug convictions should be lenient, but that disparities are there. DUI is just as problematic, if not more, as drug possession and just as illegal.

My whole point is not to make excuses or enable. It is to examine why African Americans have a disproportionate amount of people in jail.

 

[Bunyon]

"Again, as of 1990, drunk drivers are predominately white males, specifically 78% of arrests for DUI. Generally they are charged with misdemeanors and sentences typically involve fines, license suspension, and community service. on the other hand, many drug arests are in low income, predominately black neighborhoods. they are predominately charged with felonies and sentences to incarceration"-----------------------------------------------------

This has nothing to do with Black/white issues. Even if we made drunk driving a felony, it would not change the situation much. Only unblinking Cosby like honesty will do that.

"My whole point is not to make excuses or enable. It is to examine why African Americans have a disproportionate amount of people in jail. "-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me your point is to abslove the black race of their responsiblity in this problem by making it a general problem, just by chance sort of problem.

Why did you ignore my question? Where have you been and how is the movie comming?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Aslanspal, while I disagree with most of your post, it is pretty well thought out.

But I really have to ask. How do you feel about Senator Byrd ?