Bennett Fires Back Against Racism Charges

[Filmproducer]

It's because there's a very serious deterioration of values and morals.

I would contend that this is happening not just in black communities, but poor communities in general. As I have, and others, have pointed out. Crime rates are higher in low income populations, as is substance abuse, and many other things.

Race mongers use this "benefits for votes" scheme to hold onto their power base. It is pure baloney in this day an age!

I disagree, but will not try to convince you. Also, it is an embarrassing thing to be racially profiled when you have done nothing wrong. It also, in SOME INSTANCES, make people look bad to others. Here is a personal example, and I view it as such. My husband grew up in an affluent gated community. When he was in high school a series of violent break-ins occurred. He was pulled over late one night after entering the community. It was about 11 at night, and he was getting home from an away football game. Just an hour before another break-in had occurred. He was asked what his business in the neighborhood was. After showing ID his car was thoroughly searched. He was still taken into custody and detained for four hours until, confirmation of his story was found. While there he was told that it would be better if he just confessed, etc., etc. he took it all in stride, but after the incident his sister was no longer allowed to play with the neighbors, the family was not invited to BBQ's, etc. (Many people in the neighborhood were present when he was taken in.) Now three months later a white teen from down the street was caught while the robbery was in progress. Amazingly after, my husbands family was no longer "shunned", so to speak. Again, this is just one instance of personal experience, however, it can show that unjust profiling can lead to unintended consequences for the victim.

 

[carpro]

Peaple can try to whitewash (pun intended)the numbers any way they like.

It's a cold hard fact. More crime is committed by blacks than any other ethnic group. There may be many mitigating factors, but they don't change the facts.

 

[Filmproducer]

It seems to me your point is to abslove the black race of their responsiblity in this problem by making it a general problem, just by chance sort of problem.

Not at all. I do not believe it is a chance problem. I believe it is a socioeconomic problem. I even agree that based on where crime is most oftenly and aggressively prosecuted, African Americans would be disproportionately represented. In no way am I saying that crime is not a problem in the African American community. My intent is to examine the disproportionate amount of African Americans in prisons, and come to a conclusion of why. in no way am I saying that they are not supposed to be there, that they were unjustly accused, etc. They committed a crime and were punished, after a trial by jury.

This has nothing to do with Black/white issues.

Maybe not overtly, but it is something to be examined, and like I said it was only one instance.

Why did you ignore my question? Where have you been and how is the movie comming?

I'm sorry, I just hadn't gotten around to it. Things are running about as smooth as can be expected. I have been working on grassroots campaigning nonstop.

I actually ran into some road bumps with certain interest groups. Go figure!

 

[Filmproducer]

More crime is committed by blacks than any other ethnic group

Again, I disagree. This is not a cold hard fact. It is a fact that more African Americans are convicted and sentenced to prison. I contend that more crime is committed by those in the lower socioeconomic class, not african americans in general.

 

[church mouse guy]

I don't think that Bennett even said what any of the Democrats said that he is saying; here are his words again:

I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could, if that were your sole purpose, you cold abort every black baby in this country and your crime rate would go down...that would be an impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down. So these far-out, these far-reaching, extensive extrapolations are, I think, tricky.

In his example, which he said was impossible, ridiculous and morally reprehensible, which his critics have ignored, he talks about stopping all reproduction of a race by abortion. If a person is dead, he does not act criminally is all that I see him as saying logically.

Now if it is wrong to stop all reproduction by abortion, why is it not wrong to stop some reproduction by abortion?

I just think that as usual the left screams racism in this particular case but they really mean keep abortion no matter what because the left is in charge here.

 

[Bunyon]

"He was asked what his business in the neighborhood was"---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without going into to much detail, I think black officers would have acted much the same. I think it has more to do with the stats we are talking about. I am sure I "harrassed" a few white People who were in the black neighborhoods for legitamate reasons. But the vast majority were not, and I got alot of drugs of the street by targeting whites in the black neighborhoods late at night. ALOT. However, just based on what you said, I don't see what their grounds were for detaining him.

 

[Filmproducer]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
"He was asked what his business in the neighborhood was"---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Without going into to much detail, I think black officers would have acted much the same. I think it has more to do with the stats we are talking about. I am sure I "harassed" a few white People who were in the black neighborhoods for legitimate reasons. But the vast majority were not, and I got a lot of drugs of the street by targeting whites in the black neighborhoods late at night. ALOT. However, just based on what you said, I don't see what their grounds were for detaining him.

Not sure either, William does not talk about it much, and we were both in high school when it happened, so it wasn't like I was into researching it.

Anyway, his family was the ONLY black family in the community. It was a gated affluent community near Bay Hill, (Arnold Palmer's golf course, I think), in Orlando. One of the problems was that the initial officer did not believe he belonged in the community. (i.e., young black teen in predominately white affluent neighborhood, where a series of violent robberies have occurred) Again, I know this is just one instance, but I used it as an example of how profiling can sometimes damage the reputation of the innocent.

You are right, though, it was probably based on the stats. The statistics do not lie, they can however, lead to preconceived notions and stereotypes when not fully reviewed with other mitigating factors in mind. (IMHO) I realize this opinion is not shared by all.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
... Our wonderful and good African-American brothers and sisters in Christ deserve better as do all African-Americans created in Gods image. ...

Black Christians are no more or no less deserving of the truth in this matter than those of any other race. They are no more "wonderful and good" than any others. They are just as sinful as the rest of us. They are just as much in need of salvation.

The truth is that Bennett's comments were strongly against abortion which is a problem we should all stand against. His comments were not racist. He merely indicated that abortion was not justified by ridiculous reasons such as a reduction poverty or crime.

All Christians need to be concerned about the issues that lead to moral decay, breakdown of the family, and criminal conduct of our youth.

All Christians need to be concerned about public policy that enslaves people to dependency upon government by perpetuating illegitimacy for increased welfare benefits.

All Christians need to be concerned about fear of "political correctness" that restricts thinking and comments to a narrow view which avoids obvious facts staring the nation in the face.

All Christians need to be concerned about the public "assassination" of character that occurs in the name of "political correctness" and is greatly magnified by a profit driven news media.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
It's because there's a very serious deterioration of values and morals.

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
I would contend that this is happening not just in black communities, but poor communities in general. As I have, and others, have pointed out. Crime rates are higher in low income populations, as is substance abuse, and many other things.

Here's something else I wrote in the same paragraph but which you did not quote:

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
... It is not a race problem as much as it is a culture problem. It is not a problem limited to blacks either and may well be increasing among other races and groups of various national origins at an alarming rate. The consequences, however, are tragic for much of black community and the nation as a whole.
..

Context matters!

Crime is a major problem in many primarily black communities of our nation. It is not because the residents are black. It is because the residents, who happen to be black, have an inclination to criminal conduct. It is not because the criminals are largely young black males. It is because the criminals, who happen to be largely young black males, have an inclination to criminal conduct. It could become the same for any race. It is a smiliar, but not as large of a problem, among other communities. The problem is crime - not race!

However, we need to accept the fact that, for now at least, the problem is intense in the black community and needs to be dealt with honestly by that community. Excuses for the criminal conduct will not correct the problem. Blaming the problems on "oppression" or "unfair justice" are merely efforts to transfer blame. The blame rests squarely upon those committing the criminal conduct.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
... Also, it is an embarrassing thing to be racially profiled when you have done nothing wrong. ...

My family - within the three living generations - has members of three races, five nationalities, and four languages. We understand a little bit about the stereotypical conclusions people reach and issues such as "profiling". We could certainly relate some stories on this subject. We also understand that there are certain statistical patterns of behavior that merit observation and these include age, gender, race, and origin. We also understand that people form stereotypes based upon realities as known to or experienced by them whether they are completely true or not. Many people have certain preconceived ideas about me and my wife, for example, that are completely untrue. It does bother us from time to time. However, we know there are reasons why they might reach such conclusions and we do not blame them for it. Having stereotypes because of knowledge, experience, or statistical data is very different that bearing or executing racially based hatred.

 

[Filmproducer]

Having stereotypes because of knowledge, experience, or statistical data is very different that bearing or executing racially based hatred.

Maybe I am misunderstanding you, I hope I am. Stereotypes are wrong period. The preconceived notion that African American males are prone to criminal behavior is wrong. The last time I checked it is "not a crime to drive while black in a wealthy neighborhood or to drive while black in an expensive car". As I have tried to point out, crime is problem in all races, counties, states, etc. Just because the conviction and incarceration rate for African Americans is disproportionately high does not mean they are more prone to crime than other races. Now I am NOT making excuses for the criminals, or even saying it is unfair, although I do believe there are disparges in the justice system. The prison numbers do not take sentencing, plea bargins, arrests, etc.

What bennet said was racist. he did not say that the crime rate could be reduced if we aborted all babies, just black babies. He also claimed IT WAS TRUE, but morally wrong. He, therefore, perpetuated a stereotype and preconceived notion that many hold of the African American community. I have tried to point out repeatedly that it is not an African American problem alone, but a SOCIOECONOMIC one. Crime is just as much of a problem in low income rural areas as urban black, however, for whatever reason, it is not as aggressively caught or prosecuted. Now before you go and tell me I am making excuses again, i am not. Crime is a problem and it needs to be dealt with, especially in low income urban areas (i.e., black neighborhoods). However, I also believe it needs to be dealt with everywhere

 

[Dragoon68]

Check the statistics on violent crime. You will find that young black males exhibit a relatively high crime rate. Most of it is "black on black" crime. The number of violent crimes involving blacks relative to the total population is much greater than any other race. Don't get hung up on the way things should be verses the way they are. We need to encourage people to get busy fixing the problem rather than engaging in hiding it because it's not "politically correct". The statistics aren't racist. Don't get hung up on making the problem a "socioeconomic" problem verses a behavior problem. The problem isn't poverty, isn't lack of opportunity, isn't lack of education, or any other excuse that transfers blame to some other group. The problem is purely and simply a lack of values that serves to condone rather than condemn criminal conduct.

 

[Dragoon68]

There were about 15,800 murders in 2002. Of these about 5,400 were committed by whites, 5,600 by blacks, and the rest by unknowns. In 2002 there were about 236 million whites and 37.5 million blacks living in the USA.

This means that the incidence of known murderers was 2.29 x 10e-5 for whites and 1.49 x 10e-4 for blacks. If my calculations are correct, this means murderers were 6.53 times more likely to be found among blacks than whites. That's a very big difference!

It would take some serious work to really gather and analyze the data and that's not on my schedule right now. In years past I've seen some very good reports on this subject. Study the FBI Uniform Crime Reports for more details. I'm sure it's been detailed by many categories including race, gender, and age of both victims and assailants.

The point is that it indicates a very serious problem among blacks. That also indicates a very big challenge for the nation to correct.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
... What bennet said was racist. he did not say that the crime rate could be reduced if we aborted all babies, just black babies. He also claimed IT WAS TRUE, but morally wrong. He, therefore, perpetuated a stereotype and preconceived notion that many hold of the African American community. ...

Everything - in totality - that Bennett said WAS true! There was nothing racist about his comments.

I'm sure there are those who'd like to rewrite the the national crime reports in such a way that they would be "politically correct".

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Bunyon:
Marcia,

"He was saying more crimes are committed by blacks, which is not true."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Marcia, considering that blacks are only one seventh the size of the white population they commit way more crime proportionlly speaking. To say whites have just as many one welfare or have just as many convictions is a common trick to hide the fact that blacks are way higher on the list when their much smaller population is considered. For such a small population to contribute more than half the prisioners is nothing short of astounding!

But to say that proportionately speaking blacks have a higher crime rate is one thing; to say that blacks commit more crimes is another. Bennett's statement was implying that overrall black commit more crimes. He did not say proportionately speaking. The implication of his statement was clear, whether he meant it that way or not.

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
Check the statistics on violent crime. You will find that young black males exhibit a relatively high crime rate. Most of it is "black on black" crime.

Yes, yes, yes, but Bennett didn't say that violent crime would go down, but that the crime rate would go down. He didn't say that the prison population would go down, but that the crime rate would go down.

If we include all crimes, including DUI and DUI deaths and white collar crime, most crime is committed by whites. Bennett would have been more accurate in saying, "If we abort white babies, the crime rate will go down," or "If we abort more babies, the crime rate will go down." I realize the point of what he was saying on abortion but that doesn't negate the inaccuracy of what he said.

As far as I am concerned, Bennett has no credibility on morality anyway. Who is he to be a moral voice on anything?

 

[Bunyon]

But Marcia,

Semantic aside, some racist groups would actually advocate aborting as many black babies as possible by gov clinics or whatever. They would use some excuse like this one. Bennet was discounting any such argument. He was saying no matter what kind of benefit such a thing could provide it is an argument best to completely disregard. He was saying he nor us should give any time to such an arguement. I think alot of people are sterotyping Bob Bennet, even as they complain about sterotyping. I would go further and say that there are ultiamtly no benefits to abortion. Not the rational ones or the crazy ones like Bennet was adressing

 

[Marcia]

Bunyon, I understand your point and Bennett's point (though I still think he was being inaccurate on it). I think he went out of his way to make a comment that did not support his point clearly and could so easily be taken out of context. It was an unwise comment.

Anyway, as I said, why do people ascribe a moral voice to Bennett anyway? I am totally bewildered by that.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Dragoon68 said

Everything - in totality - that Bennett said WAS true! There was nothing racist about his comments.

I'm sure there are those who'd like to rewrite the the national crime reports in such a way that they would be "politically correct".

Nothing! come on! that is so wrong of course he
said at the very least something very unwise and undignified.


Even the President has separated himself from Bennett as well as other Conservatives.

Of course what he said was racist..and then he tried to cover his tracks..albeit very weakly
His remarks are totally indefensible and his
remarks are being roundly condemned as unwise.

He expressly pointed to afro-americans and singled
them out.He pretty much lumped them all in together..rich to poor...young and old...man and
woman..child. In other words abort those who even
become tithe paying upstanding believers in Jesus
Christ.

To defend Bennett is pathetic and slaps in the face our precious brothers and sisters in Christ.


Ken Melhman who reached out to Afro-Americans a
few months ago must be really frustrated by Bennett he just messed up any advanced seeding
of Goodwill.Good for the President for
roundly condemning Bennett and his excuse ridden
take no responsibility attitude ...casting blame
on others when that blame squarely rests right on
his shoulders.

God blessings on our African-American brothers
and sisters in Christ...they were singled out
by Bennett so I am singling them out for blessing.
Amen

Aslanspal

 

[Bunyon]

Tell me why blacks like Jackson and Sharpton can repeatedly make racist and stereotypical comments about Whites, Jews, and Asians and are never condemned by the democrats and the NAACP?

As long as the Democratic leaders are only willing to attack republicans over statements that are questionalble at best, while giving overtly racist blacks a pass, I can only consider it political pandering. There is not an ounce of rightousness or truth to it. It is a political game, and fewer and fewer whites will be playing along it the future. It is time for the excuses to stop.

The black community needs to stop attacking white republicans for single questionable comments while not worrying about the clear racisim in there own ranks, they need to stop the excuses and games and deal with reality.