Bennett Fires Back Against Racism Charges

[ASLANSPAL]

Mr. William J. Bennett
Mornings in America September 30, 2005

Dear Mr. Bennett:

We are concerned about your comments linking the reduction of crime to the abortion of black babies.

Though you immediately acknowledged that this argument was "morally reprehensible," we are troubled by the casual manner in which you aired such divisive, offensive and potentially hatred-inducing racial stereotypes on the radio.

Now is the time for thoughtful dialogue and soul-searching on the part of white and black leaders, not the reckless airing of bigoted stereotypes.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Anti-Defamation League

 

[rivers1222]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:

Mr. William J. Bennett
Mornings in America September 30, 2005

Dear Mr. Bennett:

We are concerned about your comments linking the reduction of crime to the abortion of black babies.

Though you immediately acknowledged that this argument was "morally reprehensible," we are troubled by the casual manner in which you aired such divisive, offensive and potentially hatred-inducing racial stereotypes on the radio.

Now is the time for thoughtful dialogue and soul-searching on the part of white and black leaders, not the reckless airing of bigoted stereotypes.

We look forward to hearing from you.

Sincerely,

Anti-Defamation League

------------------------
Be interesting to see if Bennett has the "political will" to tell these clowns where to shove their letter. Sadly, he has probably taken all the garbage from the left that he can handle.

 

[rivers1222]

ASLANSPAL Writes:

Even the President has separated himself from Bennett as well as other Conservatives.

-----------------------------
For the sake of truth in posting, will you please refrain from calling the President a conservative.

 

[Filmproducer]

The majority of you are seriously missing my point. Bennett's statement was not only illogical, but categorically untrue from a racial standpoint. not to mention the fact that it PERPETUATES a stereotype of African Americans. What do mean? Here are some numbers to clarify.

Taken from the DOJ Prisoners in 2003 Report-
Number of sentenced prisoners under State or Federal jurisdiction

Total Male Prisoners- 1,316,495
*total white males- 454,300
*total black males- 586,300
*total Hispanic males- 251,900

Total Female Prisoners- 92,785
*total white females- 39,100
*total black females- 35,000
*total Hispanic females- 16,200

US Census Demographics 2000

Total US Population- 281,421,906
*total white (one race)- 211,460,626
*total black (one race)- 34,658,190
*total Hispanic (any race)- 35,305,818 Note: Hispanic is an ethnicity not a race, therefore, this number includes Hispanic-white and Hispanic-nonwhite

I have already said, numerous times I might add, that African Americans would be disproportionately represented in the prison statistics. It logically follows that if crime is higher in low income brackets, and crime is more aggressively prosecuted in low income urban areas, then African Americans would be disproportionately represented. The first problem with Bennett's statement is that it is an inductive argument (i.e., it uses probabilistic reasoning). This is not necessarily wrong, however, his premise relies on a causal inference that is categorically untrue (i.e., it logically IMPLIES that all black babies would grow up to be criminals). Now, look at the numbers, why is his causal inference categorically untrue?

Deductive Argument-
The African American population is approximately 34,658,190 people.
The African American prison population, (nationwide), male and female included, in 2003, was 489,300 .
Therefore, the vast majority of African Americans are law abiding citizens.

His statement is considered racist because it perpetuated a widely held stereotype that the majority of African Americans are criminals. However, while African Americans are the "majority", of the prison population, the majority of African Americans are not in prison. Once again I contend that it is a socioeconomic problem, not a racial problem.

In response to the statement about whites and DUI's, it is not racist because the numbers support the claim (i.e., on average 78% of whites are arrested for DUI, DWI, or drunk and disorderlies, etc. For example, in the jail population, according to the DOJ's Profile of Jail inmates, 2002, blacks (31%) were more likely to be in jail for drug offenses than whites (19%). Conversely white inmates (31%) were more likely to be in jail for DWI than blacks (18%).

 

[Filmproducer]

In response to the statement about whites and DUI's, it is not racist because the numbers support the claim (i.e., on average 78% of whites are arrested for DUI, DWI, or drunk and disorderlies, etc.)

Sorry, it is 78% of the arrests for these offenses, on average, is whites, not 78% of whites in general.

 

[ASLANSPAL]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
The majority of you are seriously missing my point. Bennett's statement was not only illogical, but categorically untrue from a racial standpoint. not to mention the fact that it PERPETUATES a stereotype of African Americans. What do mean? Here are some numbers to clarify.

Taken from the DOJ Prisoners in 2003 Report-
Number of sentenced prisoners under State or Federal jurisdiction

Total Male Prisoners- 1,316,495
*total white males- 454,300
*total black males- 586,300
*total Hispanic males- 251,900

Total Female Prisoners- 92,785
*total white females- 39,100
*total black females- 35,000
*total Hispanic females- 16,200

US Census Demographics 2000

Total US Population- 281,421,906
*total white (one race)- 211,460,626
*total black (one race)- 34,658,190
*total Hispanic (any race)- 35,305,818 Note: Hispanic is an ethnicity not a race, therefore, this number includes Hispanic-white and Hispanic-nonwhite

I have already said, numerous times I might add, that African Americans would be disproportionately represented in the prison statistics. It logically follows that if crime is higher in low income brackets, and crime is more aggressively prosecuted in low income urban areas, then African Americans would be disproportionately represented. The first problem with Bennett's statement is that it is an inductive argument (i.e., it uses probabilistic reasoning). This is not necessarily wrong, however, his premise relies on a causal inference that is categorically untrue (i.e., it logically IMPLIES that all black babies would grow up to be criminals). Now, look at the numbers, why is his causal inference categorically untrue?

Deductive Argument-
The African American population is approximately 34,658,190 people.
The African American prison population, (nationwide), male and female included, in 2003, was 489,300 .
Therefore, the vast majority of African Americans are law abiding citizens.

His statement is considered racist because it perpetuated a widely held stereotype that the majority of African Americans are criminals. However, while African Americans are the "majority", of the prison population, the majority of African Americans are not in prison. Once again I contend that it is a socioeconomic problem, not a racial problem.

In response to the statement about whites and DUI's, it is not racist because the numbers support the claim (i.e., on average 78% of whites are arrested for DUI, DWI, or drunk and disorderlies, etc. For example, in the jail population, according to the DOJ's Profile of Jail inmates, 2002, blacks (31%) were more likely to be in jail for drug offenses than whites (19%). Conversely white inmates (31%) were more likely to be in jail for DWI than blacks (18%).

Good work Filmproducer I appreciate your research
in help clarifying the issue.

At the very least you cannot apologize for Bennett
he could probably squeak by the racists moniker and only God knows what is in his heart but the
sterotype is without question. He did a diservice
to the nation in his lumping all African-Americans
as inherently criminal. I applaud the President
for seperating himself from it..rivers that might
be a another good topic ...why Bush is not a true
conservative.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
The majority of you are seriously missing my point. Bennett's statement was not only illogical, but categorically untrue from a racial standpoint. not to mention the fact that it PERPETUATES a stereotype of African Americans. What do mean? Here are some numbers to clarify. ...

I know you're sincere in your comments and your point is being understood. However, I don't agree with your conclusions.

Let's be more direct: You are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime if you are black and in a predominately black community than if you are white and in a predominately white community. You are, in fact, six to seven times more more likely. The statistics indicate that violent crime is more prevalent among blacks from both the perspective of the victim and the perpetrator. The rest of the statistics that deal with total numbers of crimes are relatively meaningless with respect to this discussion.

Bennett was making reference to this fact about violent crime and blacks. He noted that some might point out that if the black population were reduced then then so would violent crime. Literally that would be the result based upon the known facts. However, he didn't make this comment to suggest a reduction in the black population be undertaken. In fact, his whole point was that abortion - the hypothetical means of reduction - was completely wrong for any reason whether to reduce poverty, as some have suggested, or crime or anything else.

We need to understand the message and not worry so much about the words. The message was clear and correct whether or not the words were phrased excellently, acceptably, or poorly.

 

[Filmproducer]

At the very least you cannot apologize for Bennett

Exactly, I do not understand the problem. He made an offensive comment that was in itself racist. It does not matter that he went on to say it would be morally wrong, reprehensible, etc. It does not matter, because he CLAIMED that the remark was TRUE. I do not understand why people do not see the stereotyping in his comment? As I said, I believe in my first post of this thread, the media needs to be held accountable. They need to be held to higher standards. I do not consider this politically correct. I don't even believe it falls under PC because the statement PERPETUATED A WIDELY HELD, BUT INACCURATE STEREOTYPE.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Maybe Bennett did it intentionally. I think that he is too intelligent to say something this stupid by accident. You know what they say, there is no such thing as bad publicity.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
... He did a diservice to the nation in his lumping all African-Americans as inherently criminal. ...

That's not at all what Bennett said. That's want some people have tried to make out of what he said.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
At the very least you cannot apologize for Bennett

Exactly, I do not understand the problem. He made an offensive comment that was in itself racist. It does not matter that he went on to say it would be morally wrong, reprehensible, etc. It does not matter, because he CLAIMED that the remark was TRUE. I do not understand why people do not see the stereotyping in his comment? As I said, I believe in my first post of this thread, the media needs to be held accountable. They need to be held to higher standards. I do not consider this politically correct. I don't even believe it falls under PC because the statement PERPETUATED A WIDELY HELD, BUT INACCURATE STEREOTYPE.

No apology from Bennett is necessary. The coment - the whole comment - was true.

Apologies should come from those who have perpetuated a misrepresentation of what he said.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
... However, while African Americans are the "majority", of the prison population, the majority of African Americans are not in prison. ...

That's a true statement. Bennett said nothing to the contrary.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by rivers1222:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by ASLANSPAL:
... Anti-Defamation League ...

------------------------
Be interesting to see if Bennett has the "political will" to tell these clowns where to shove their letter. Sadly, he has probably taken all the garbage from the left that he can handle. </font>[/QUOTE]I hope he it does!

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
... on average 78% of whites are arrested for DUI, DWI, or drunk and disorderlies, etc. ...

That could be viewed as a very racist comment. How can it be claimed that 78% of whites are criminals!

 

[Filmproducer]

Let's be more direct: You are more likely to be the victim of a violent crime if you are black and in a predominately black community than if you are white and in a predominately white community. You are, in fact, six to seven times more more likely. The statistics indicate that violent crime is more prevalent among blacks from both the perspective of the victim and the perpetrator.

Once again, let's examine why? First of all, don't you believe that this is because of the socioeconomic of the community? Can you deny the fact that there are more predominately white middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods? In fact, the majority of middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods would be predominately white, because the US has entirely more white people. Unlike you, I believe the numbers are very important and not meaningless, because they help dispel stereotypes.

As far as violent crime is concerned. Black (26.9%) and Hispanic (27.1%) inmates were more likely to be violent offenders than whites (22%). These numbers are taken form the DOJ's Profile of Jail Inmates, 2002. They define jails as "locally operated correctional facilities that confine persons before or after adjudication".

Now that is 27% and 22% respectively of the total number of jail inmates. For whites that was 223,292. For blacks that was 249,304. for Hispanics that was 114,562. There is not a huge difference between the white and black populations. Again the reason that black on black violent crime is higher is because that crime is usually in low income urban areas, where crime is more aggressively prosecuted. Once again, it is the numbers that give the whole picture. Percentages are nothing without total numbers. The VAST MAJORITY of African Americans are law abiding citizens, so even if Bennett's claim was about violent offenders then it would still be categorically untrue.

I do not take issue with the fact that the statement was about abortion. I take issue with the fact that the statement while condemning abortion perpetuated a widely held stereotype of African Americans. As a media outlet he should know better, and it was right for people to speak out about it. He was wrong, period.

 

[Filmproducer]

Originally posted by Dragoon68:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Filmproducer:
... on average 78% of whites are arrested for DUI, DWI, or drunk and disorderlies, etc. ...

That could be viewed as a very racist comment. How can it be claimed that 78% of whites are criminals! </font>[/QUOTE]Did you not see my edit directly following? I corrected myself and said that 78% of the arrests for these offenses are whites. i was not trying to claim that 78% of whites are criminals. There is a difference that is why I corrected myself. go back and look. It was the post that immediately followed the post wou are quoting.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
Once again, let's examine why? First of all, don't you believe that this is because of the socioeconomic of the community? Can you deny the fact that there are more predominately white middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods? In fact, the majority of middle class and upper middle class neighborhoods would be predominately white, because the US has entirely more white people. Unlike you, I believe the numbers are very important and not meaningless, because they help dispel stereotypes.

The "reasons" are a separate discussion all together and don't change the known facts.

No, "socioeconomic" reasons are not the cause of the crime. There are other communities in this world with far more poverty than the worst poverty in our nation and they do not exhibit the same crime problems. No, I do not deny the demographics of economic status in our society. Likewise, I do not deny the demographics of crime in our society. Do you?

The reason for the crime is the lack of values in the persons that commit the crimes. They either don't know or don't follow God's laws in their daily walk on this earth. They are completely responsible for their actions. No one else is responsible for their criminal conduct. This much is the same regardless of the race.

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
As far as violent crime is concerned. Black (26.9%) and Hispanic (27.1%) inmates were more likely to be violent offenders than whites (22%). These numbers are taken form the DOJ's Profile of Jail Inmates, 2002. They define jails as "locally operated correctional facilities that confine persons before or after adjudication".

Now that is 27% and 22% respectively of the total number of jail inmates. For whites that was 223,292. For blacks that was 249,304. for Hispanics that was 114,562. There is not a huge difference between the white and black populations.

These numbers are from the population of persons incarcerated and not the general population. This data is relevant to the study of inmates but not to crime in society outside the prison. Law abiding citizens and residents are in prison.

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
Again the reason that black on black violent crime is higher is because that crime is usually in low income urban areas, where crime is more aggressively prosecuted.

The numbers of violent crime are based upon the occurrence of crime and not the prosecution of crime. It has nothing to do with prosecution. Murder - the most violent of crimes - hardly ever goes unreported so it's neither hidden nor fabricated.

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
Once again, it is the numbers that give the whole picture. Percentages are nothing without total numbers.

Total numbers rarely mean much without being related, weighted, or correlated in some logical meaningful manner. Raw data isn't information until it's related to some worthwhile base. Incidence rates mean a lot more than just the numbers of incidents.

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
The VAST MAJORITY of African Americans are law abiding citizens, so even if Bennett's claim was about violent offenders then it would still be categorically untrue.

Yes, the majority of all Americans are, generally, law abiding citizens. No, Bennett's statements were correct.

 

[Dragoon68]

Originally posted by Filmproducer:
Did you not see my edit directly following? I corrected myself and said that 78% of the arrests for these offenses are whites. i was not trying to claim that 78% of whites are criminals. There is a difference that is why I corrected myself. go back and look. It was the post that immediately followed the post wou are quoting.

Yes, I knew what you meant to write.

Consider that Bennett, by the standard of some, has been denied the opportunity to qualify his words even one sentence later much less make any kind of "correction" if he wanted to do so.

His comments have been accused, tried, and convicted in the news media to be racist despite the fact that's not what he said much less what he meant.

I wonder how he feels about knowing that so much of the country has labeled him a racist and yet he has no such thoughts in his heart.

 

[Bunyon]

Filmproducer,

No one is missing your point. You always fall back on our points as saying that all blacks are criminals or thiefs or whatever. No one thinks that or asserts that. But when 17percent of the population contributes, 50 plus percent of the prisioners, well, Houston- we have a problem. The kind of equivication that you, Jackson, and the democrats bring to the issue is hurtful to the cause. End the end it is just excuse making. Is there, any problem in the black community that you thinks is not attributable to some outside influence. Are blacks responsible for any of thier problems. Cosby and others think they are. Jumping on some white talk show host for a single questionable statement is just more of the same old same old.

"it logically IMPLIES that all black babies would grow up to be criminals)."===================================================================================

Once again, he did not say this nor are we saying it. We don't believe that and I am sure he does not either. In the end we are all just hidding from the truth when we make the same old excuses over and over.

 

[Bunyon]

Dragoon68, the problem is that Bennet has been stereotyped, by the antisterotype police.