Besides Lordship Haters and Calvinist Shills...?

[JDale]

It seems this forum has become the haven of either easy-believism opponents of the Lordship of Christ, or the domain of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism.

Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

It just seems most "Baptists" here have gone to one of these two extremes. Is it only me who attempts to "remain at the center of Biblical tension," or are there others? Just shout out -- I'd like to know!




JDale

 

[SBCPreacher]

Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

Here 's one.

 

[JDale]

Praise God! Is there another? Won't you come forward...?

Sorry, had to do my imitation of a Baptist Evangelist!

 

[Benjamin]

Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

You are not alone. :thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

Here's another. :wavey:

 

[lbaker]

Praise God! Is there another? Won't you come forward...?

Sorry, had to do my imitation of a Baptist Evangelist!

My head is bowed and my hand is raised...

 

[Grasshopper]

It seems this forum has become the haven of either easy-believism opponents of the Lordship of Christ, or the domain of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism.

Clean up your own yard before calling mine a dump:

"Use common sense, Hdad (which I realize is not very common among Calvies and "Christian" academia today)."

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=51579


Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

So you think Calvinism teaches God forces man to believe?? Perhaps you should study more.

It just seems most "Baptists" here have gone to one of these two extremes. Is it only me who attempts to "remain at the center of Biblical tension," or are there others? Just shout out -- I'd like to know!

I reject the notion that Calvinism is an extreme. Our Baptist forefathers sure didn't think so. Maybe the "middle of the road/center" position is extreme.




JDale

 

[JDale]

It seems this forum has become the haven of either easy-believism opponents of the Lordship of Christ, or the domain of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism.

Clean up your own yard before calling mine a dump:

"Use common sense, Hdad (which I realize is not very common among Calvies and "Christian" academia today)."

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=51579


Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

So you think Calvinism teaches God forces man to believe?? Perhaps you should study more.

It just seems most "Baptists" here have gone to one of these two extremes. Is it only me who attempts to "remain at the center of Biblical tension," or are there others? Just shout out -- I'd like to know!

I reject the notion that Calvinism is an extreme. Our Baptist forefathers sure didn't think so. Maybe the "middle of the road/center" position is extreme.




JDale

There are those who are still kicking against the pricks! They have not raised their hands, nor opened their hearts. Pray, Brethren, Pray!

Seriously, Grasshoppa, you need to lighten up! Okay, so you're a Calvinist shill! You're still loved, Brother! If I may call you brother...?

As to your lifting of a quote I don't even remember -- and possibly out of context -- we've ALL said less than diplomatic things on these threads after having been insulted or having our intelligence or even our faith questioned. If my response offended you, I apologize.

I didn't call YOUR backyard a dump. In fact, you never even occurred to me once when I created this thread. So, no offense, but I didn't trespass upon nor trash your yard. May I therefore ask that you not toilet paper mine?

I was interested in seeing if there were indeed other "Baptists" who didn't affirm one of these two polarizing stances. I used the term "extreme" only in the sense that those who hold these positions tend not to be willing to discuss other opinions or to entertain other ideas. Your above post on this thread is exhibit A.

I would ask that you not be so hasty to stand in judgment of me -- I had no intention of pointing any fingers at you.

Blessings,

JDale

 

[Allan]

It seems this forum has become the haven of either easy-believism opponents of the Lordship of Christ, or the domain of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism.

Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

It just seems most "Baptists" here have gone to one of these two extremes. Is it only me who attempts to "remain at the center of Biblical tension," or are there others? Just shout out -- I'd like to know!




JDale

I stand in the mix as well - hand raised high.

 

[Allan]

So you think Calvinism teaches God forces man to believe?? Perhaps you should study more.

Did you want to believe (according to Calvinism) while in your original nature?
Answer: No

Did God not have to change your nature?
Answer: Yes He did.

Did God do it when you didn't want Him to?
Answer: Yes.

Why did God have to change your nature?
Answer: He did it to make you believe Him.

In your new nature (according Calvinism) you "have to" believe Him, there is no other choice. God changed you (when you didn't want Him) to make you want Him.
So would this not fall under the context of 'forced'?

I reject the notion that Calvinism is an extreme. Our Baptist forefathers sure didn't think so. Maybe the "middle of the road/center" position is extreme.

Some of our Baptist fore-fathers, some.

 

[Joe]

Add me to this list...

 

[Grasshopper]

There are those who are still kicking against the pricks! They have not raised their hands, nor opened their hearts. Pray, Brethren, Pray!

Did you mean bricks?:tonofbricks:



Seriously, Grasshoppa, you need to lighten up! Okay, so you're a Calvinist shill! You're still loved, Brother! If I may call you brother...?

shill</SPAN> Slang. </SPAN>
–noun
1.
a person who poses as a customer in order to decoy others into participating, as at a gambling house, auction, confidence game, etc.


2.
a person who publicizes or praises something or someone for reasons of self-interest, personal profit, or friendship or loyalty.



Are you a shill for your position? Or are only Calvinists shills?


As to your lifting of a quote I don't even remember -- and possibly out of context --

The quote was from skypair. I notice you two have similar debating tactics. And why don't you read the quote before accusing me of posting "out of context". Thats why I gave the link.

we've ALL said less than diplomatic things on these threads after having been insulted or having our intelligence or even our faith questioned. If my response offended you, I apologize.

Then why the need to single out Calvinists?

You said: "of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism."

No need to apologize, I'm used to it.


I didn't call YOUR backyard a dump. In fact, you never even occurred to me once when I created this thread. So, no offense, but I didn't trespass upon nor trash your yard. May I therefore ask that you not toilet paper mine?

Your accusation was against Calvinists of which I happen to be. If you can broadstroke Calvinists, are Calvinists allowed to do the same?

I was interested in seeing if there were indeed other "Baptists" who didn't affirm one of these two polarizing stances.

Polarizing only to some. By the way, the Cross is polarizing to many, does that make it wrong?

I used the term "extreme" only in the sense that those who hold these positions tend not to be willing to discuss other opinions or to entertain other ideas. Your above post on this thread is exhibit A.

I come from a church where I'm only one of maybe two Calvinists with a pastor who leans toward Open Theism. So I do not fit your sterotype. Perhaps you should look in the mirror.

I would ask that you not be so hasty to stand in judgment of me -- I had no intention of pointing any fingers at you.

Gee, I'm sorry, I thought calling someone a shill, accusing of quoting out of context, accusing of "attacks" and calling one extreme were judgments.

Blessings,

JDale

The point is you could have asked your question without throwing out the divisive language. But you chose differently and I can only assume intentionally.

 

[JDale]

Grasshopper:

I don't know Skypair well, but if he agrees with me most of the time, he must be a good guy.

I don't know you either, but it appears you are an expert at deconstructing any statements you don't agree with and "reconstructing" them to sound more sinister than their context might ordinarily dictate.

Have I been critical of Calvinism? Of Calvinists? Yes. Too many (though by NO means ALL) Calvinists tend to "toss a frog in the punch bowl" and then blame the person (non-Calvinists) who finds it for putting it there. Again, your previous post is exhibit B.

I would note I've also been just as firm in my statements about the "Lordship Salvation hunters" who start a myriad of "Lordship = Legalism" or "Lordship = Works Salvation" threads. How different is that from Calvinists who post things like "When Synergists and Catholics Sound Alike," and conclude in the first two posts that "Catholics ARE Synergists!" The intent of such threads and posts (though NOT accurate) are not to further discussion or foster understanding.

As I've repeated twice before, this thread was simply to look for those who did not hold to the rigid (is that better than "extreme?) views of the Lordship opponents and the Calvinist proponents. I am heartened to see that there are still some among Baptists....

Are there others? Don't worry about your friends, they won't leave you? Won't you come?

JDale

 

[Rippon]

I don't know Skypair well, but if he agrees with me most of the time, he must be a good guy.

Rip : You really need to read more posts before making that kind of statement.

I don't know you either, but it appears you are an expert at deconstructing any statements you don't agree with and "reconstructing" them to sound more sinister than their context might ordinarily dictate.

Rip : No, Grasshopper was indeed deconstructing.He was taking away plank after plank of your bamboo "arguments".There was no attempt to make your reasonings sinister;they were plain enough as they were.

 

[Marcia]

It seems this forum has become the haven of either easy-believism opponents of the Lordship of Christ, or the domain of Calvinist shills making thinly veiled (or maybe not) attacks on anyone who doesn't believe in their brand of determinism.

Is there, in fact, anyone here who believes Jesus is Saviour & LORD, and who falls into the general "non-Calvinist" theological catergory anymore? Is there anyone who understands "Lordship" NOT to mean "works salvation" but DOES understand it to mean total commitment to being His Disciple? Is there anyone who reveres God's sovereignty while respecting His ability to enable but not enforce man's "Faith"?

It just seems most "Baptists" here have gone to one of these two extremes. Is it only me who attempts to "remain at the center of Biblical tension," or are there others? Just shout out -- I'd like to know!




JDale

It's because those 2 camps are the most vocal and aggressive, and start a lot of threads. You may have noticed I've complained about some of the Calvinists and their tendency to turn every debate into a Calvinist vs. non-Calvinist (though they use other terms) issue. Back in '04 when I first joined the BB, they had a Calvinist-non-Calvinist forum, which was nice as it gave a place for these people to vent. Then they took it away (I think it got too heated) but that only sends them into other forums and threads.

 

[sag38]

I've been on board. Some things, such as grace, in my opinion, don't fall into some neat little theological box that some, in my opinion, try to force it into.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I am a Calvinist, but Calvinism is not my focus. But someone may say, "But I have seen you comment about it often." True, but in the context of the disucssions. Calvinism is not the focus of the Scriptures. Christ Jesus is and should be our focus as well.

There are those on the boards that if I comment on a subject and it seems to carry some "calvinsim" in it they will reply to my post and try to draw me into a debate on the matter. You will notice that I hardly reply to such people.

There are times when the Gospel is presented in such a way that to my mind is utterly obnoxious to the glory and majesty of God. So, you might see me seek to bring Scriptural clarification that would exalt the Lord above man. And I suppose there are times when I have been too preoccupied on particular doctrines (pun not intended). But God is faithful to us to bring us back to a pure devotion to Jesus.

I do try to limit my polemic to an explaination of what and why I believe what I do in regards to Calvinism. This said, it is proper to teach positively and truthfully on the subjects of predestination, election, atonement, last things, the new birth, et. These are Scriptural subjects. You may disagree with how I have understood the received the Scripture, and that is fine, but I have never put my understanding as equally as infallible as the Scripture itself!

I think we can all agree that the contention that seems to arise from these subjects or others is wearisome. It causes some to leave such online discussions altogether. Obviously its not the case with us, because here we are.

To act with Christian charity on controversial subjects is not easy. We get offended at what someone says and make our reply in the offense when we would do well to pause long enough to pray and set our hearts right before we answer. Even if our opponent makes personal attacks and violates the "rules of debate" or exercises logical fallacies does not mean we should be the first to point them out. Sometimes I think a kind response, dealing with the subject, can work toward the good of our brethren much more than trying to defeat his or her argument on principles of logic.

The goal of our theology brethren ought not to just be right. It ought to be to comprehend the mystery of the Gospel by the aid of God's Spirit through His Holy Scriptures that we might know HIm and be conformed to the image of the image of Christ, and if God wills, make His will known to others.

 

[John of Japan]

Very well said, ReformedBaptist! :applause: :applause:

 

[JDale]

I second JoJ's response. Excellent post RB!

JDale

 

[jdlongmire]

Amen, my brother.

Philippians 1:27
Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ, so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I will hear of you that you are standing firm in one spirit, with one mind striving together for the faith of the gospel;