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Biblical Chastening
- Thread starter James_Newman
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2 Timothy2:1-4
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J. Jump said:Well let's just see what the Scripture has to say on the matter shall we?
And then you provide none.
Where is the scripture?If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
So Amy what happens to those that don't endure the chastening? Again do they just get an atta boy slap on the back and a welcome because I know you were a rebel, but that's really okay?
Again no scripture
Says who? Scripture doesn't say this. No one to date has come up with a Scripture that directly says or even implies that discipline is over and done with in this life.
Again you continue to provide no scripture.
Once again what if the discipline doesn't bring about the necessary results and I continue in my rebellion? I just get a that's okay here's your smaller piece of paradise pie now enjoy all that eternity has to offer despite your rebellion?
Yet again no scripture.
Again please provide Scripture that says a person that stays a rebel in this life gets to enjoy the coming age.
No one has suggested such and you still have no scripture
I'm glad you brought this statement up, because it's going to prove once and for all how wrong you actually are. There are a number of people on this board that do practically nothing less than make fun of other believers. There are several on this board that do practically nothing but lie about other believers. But you don't see them miserable in their sin. You don't see these folks repenting and making amends for their actions.
No sir they are calling heresy heresy and it is those who suppport this heresy that seem to be comfortable in their sin. But as usual you still provide no scipture.
Now you can try to excuse their action and call it unsinful, but to date there has not been one person that has advocated and supported the actions of some on this board, so there's not going to be much support that they aren't sinning.
Scripture please.
This idea that you feel bad until you get it right just doesn't fly. Once again it sounds good, but it just doesn't have any basis in Scripture when you put it to the test.
And you have no scripture to put your heresy to the test as has been evidenced in this post.
There are some folks that enjoy their sin and aren't even thinking twice about it much less feeling bad or losing sleep over it!
And they are lost as the day is long.
1Jo 3:8 - He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
I do know maybe in your world being of the devil just means they have been bad little Christians.
J. Jump said:Scripture please?
Hebrews 12:7-11
How can you not endure? Do you say, "hey God, I'm not going to take this discipline anymore?"Yeah IF YOU ENDURE.
Who are they? Scripture please.I notice that you simply chose not to deal with that particular bit of the text. What happens to those that don't endure?
When you discipline your children, do you ask their permission first? How do they NOT endure it?
This is just downright comical.And then you provide none. Where is the scripture?
II Timothy did you rip Hebrews 12 out of your Bible? Last time I checked the book of Hebrews was Scripture. I'm sure you will correct me on that one though.
Since you obviously missed the Scripture here it is again:
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? cripture?
Amy.G said:J. Jump said:How can you not endure? Do you say, "hey God, I'm not going to take this discipline anymore?"
Who are they? Scripture please.
When you discipline your children, do you ask their permission first? How do they NOT endure it?
1. Why do we cast a conditional element in the text of Hebrews 12:4-11 when there is none there?
2. Since there is none there, whatever we say is speculative at best.
2 Timothy2:1-4
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If you are not sorrowful for your sin, you are not a child of God.
J. Jump said:Scripture please?
Alot of gall asking for scripture when yu yourself provide none.
Let me answer that for you.
2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Sorry Amy, but your lack of understanding of how something can happen does not a doctrine make. The text says IF YOU ENDURE. That means that you can not endure.How can you not endure?
So once again what happens to those that do not endure?
Sorry but that doesn't say you are going to be sorrowful for all your sins that you commit. Try again. That says godly sorrow does some things, but what is DOES NOT say is that everyone possess this godly sorrow.2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Care to try again?
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
J. Jump said:This is just downright comical.
II Timothy did you rip Hebrews 12 out of your Bible? Last time I checked the book of Hebrews was Scripture. I'm sure you will correct me on that one though.
Since you obviously missed the Scripture here it is again:
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? cripture?
What is comical is your attempt at slight of hand in a forum. this single passage does not cover the entire post nor does it apply to your assertion. Try again.
Does not the word "if" tell us that there is a condition? If you endure . . .1. Why do we cast a conditional element in the text of Hebrews 12:4-11 when there is none there?
I looked at nine different translations and the only one that didn't look obvious that endurance was something could or could not be done was the NASB. All the others made it a matter condition.
How is posting Scripture slight of hand. First you accuse me (and falsely I might add) of not posting Scripture and then you are proven wrong and this is all you can come up with?What is comical is your attempt at slight of hand in a forum.
"If you (a believer) endure chastening..."
How is it possible that a believer not endure chastening? It is not a condition that is put on the believer. You are taking it wrong J.Jump.
For example:
If my daughter endure a spanking...
How can she not endure the spanking? If I spank her will she endure the pain? She has no choice but to endure the pain. He fanny is not made of stainless steel. It will hurt and she must endure the pain. "If she endure..."
It is a surety. The believer will endure.
How is it possible that a believer not endure chastening? It is not a condition that is put on the believer. You are taking it wrong J.Jump.
For example:
If my daughter endure a spanking...
How can she not endure the spanking? If I spank her will she endure the pain? She has no choice but to endure the pain. He fanny is not made of stainless steel. It will hurt and she must endure the pain. "If she endure..."
It is a surety. The believer will endure.
J. Jump said:Does not the word "if" tell us that there is a condition? If you endure . . .
I looked at nine different translations and the only one that didn't look obvious that endurance was something could or could not be done was the NASB. All the others made it a matter condition.
. NIV/TNIV; RSV,NRSV,ESV; HCSB and the ASV do not have "If." What are those nine versions that you looked up?
2 Timothy2:1-4
New Member
J. Jump said:How is posting Scripture slight of hand. First you accuse me (and falsely I might add) of not posting Scripture and then you are proven wrong and this is all you can come up with?
You made multiple assertions in that one post (8 or 9)with no scriptual backing. Maybe you should go back and reread your psot.
DHK said:"If you (a believer) endure chastening..."
How is it possible that a believer not endure chastening? It is not a condition that is put on the believer. You are taking it wrong J.Jump.
For example:
If my daughter endure a spanking...
How can she not endure the spanking? If I spank her will she endure the pain? She has no choice but to endure the pain. He fanny is not made of stainless steel. It will hurt and she must endure the pain. "If she endure..."
It is a surety. The believer will endure.
1. I need to get acquainted with the KJV.
2. But for someone who does know it and use it, this makes a lot of sense.
TCGreek said:. NIV/TNIV; RSV,NRSV,ESV; HCSB and the ASV do not have "If." What are those nine versions that you looked up?
Seven editions of the KJV, the NKJV and Youngs Literal? Just kidding...
Well let's just refresh our memories of what exactly I was talking about shall we:You made multiple assertions in that one post (8 or 9)with no scriptual backing. Maybe you should go back and reread your psot.
Well once again it still stands that you were incorrect. Because not only did I provide Scripture, but I provided Scripture in the very quote that you questioned.Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Jump
Well let's just see what the Scripture has to say on the matter shall we?
And then you provide none.
Quote:
If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
Where is the scripture?
Yes I made more assertions, but let's just deal with what's on the table shall we. You falsely accused me of not posting Scripture when you even quoted the Scripture that I posted. That's false accusation no matter how you draw it up.
And I can just feel your sorrow for falsely accusing me.
KJV, NKJV, Amplified, NIV, NASB, NLT, CEV, RSV, YLT, HCSB I guess there were 10.What are those nine versions that you looked up?
Again your lack of understanding how something is or might be does not a doctrine make. You can't simply say well I can't see how a saved person can't endure chastening so that means they can't.How is it possible that a believer not endure chastening?
The same way I have a friend that says he can't understand how a person can understand the gift of everlasting life and walk away from it and that is one of his biggest arguments as to why he is a calvinist.
You simply can't make doctrines stand on what you can understand and what you can't.
What does the Bible say? If you endure. That means you can endure and that means that there is a possibility you won't endure.
As to your child example there are children that grew up in homes where they received discipline and it did not stop their rebellion, so while they endured the pain of chastening they didn't actually endure the chastening, because the chastening didn't have it's desired impact on them.
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