Biblical Chastening

[jne1611]

This goes far beyond selling the Blood of Christ short. It perverts the very gospel that redeems a fallen man from sin. It is a heresy in its clearest form.

Amen! I guess I did put it to lightly. The fact is that it makes hell a more powerful purger than the blood of Christ. Which is damnable.

 

[npetreley]

I heard of it sometime before the BB. I was talking to a Baptist pastor that told me about it (he believed it) and it blew me away that someone could sell the blood of Christ that short. I wander when the idea started getting a following? Because from what I understand, there has been a book published called "The Rod, Will God Spare It?" by Joy Faust, forwarded by Greg Dixon, who is a widely known Baptist. the book is dedicated to expounding this doctrine.

Here is a link to a rebuttal to Joey Faust's Rod book.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/faust.htm

It quotes Faust as saying things like this:

This is the same as the underworld or hell. To be cast out of heaven is to be cast down to earth (Rev. 12:7-10). Therefore, to be cast out of God's kingdom on earth is to be cast down into the underworld (Matthew 5:30, 18:9, Mark 9:47). Unfaithful Christians will be temporarily banished to the underworld until after the millennium. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth in this outer darkness (Matthew 8:12, 22:13, 25:30). The unfaithful Christian goes to the same place as the unbeliever and hypocrite until after the millennium (The Rod, p. 408).

 

[jne1611]

Here is a link to a rebuttal to Joey Faust's Rod book.

http://www.middletownbiblechurch.org/doctrine/faust.htm

It quotes Faust as saying things like this:

Thanks So Much! You need to post that link on all the ME threads!

 

[npetreley]

James, I went right to the end after this thread seemed to go astray, so someone else might have pointed this out so here is my take on your inquiry: God has a reason for chastising His children:

To modify their behavior so that He can bless and reward them in this life:

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
​

The fruit of righteousness is its own reward.

HankD

I agree. This is painfully obvious. As others have pointed out so well, there's no point to delayed discipline. Doesn't anyone here have children or pets? If your dog pooped on the carpet, would you punish the dog a week later? Of course not. Everyone knows that the only way to teach the dog properly is to discipline it immediately and consistently. A week later it won't even have a clue why you're punishing it. Same goes for raising children. Only a swift, consistent, and just punishment is truly effective.

So ME people can call the 1,000 years in the lake of fire/hell whatever they want, but if they try to call it "corrective", they're even more wacko than one could imagine.

 

[charles_creech78]

It is because of sin we receive chastisement.

Jer 30:14All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; [because] thy sins were increased

Jer 30:15Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow [is] incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: [because] thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

Amen Brother Bob amen.:thumbs:

 

[charles_creech78]

Man brother Bob you got that scripture just right I fill like crieing brother. I wish there was a smile face that had a hammer in its hand hiting on a nail because that is what you did. That last part of that scripture really got to me. Thank you God for giving that scripture to Brother Bob to show us.

 

[DHK]

Paul separated them very easy, I can see where you are having trouble understanding it though. Could be because of that early Catholic teaching, who knows, I don't.

Sure hope you don't call scripture a bunny trail again!!
Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If this is Catholic, then that is another thing they have right..

Bob what makes your theology Catholic-like is your hypocritical way of dividing up sin--just as the Catholics divide up sn into mortal and venial so do you.

Here on the board you have admitted that you are not sinless and you have sinned--little white lies, whatever. If I ask your wife I am sure that she will tell me in some areas that you have sinned. I am sure that you haven't kept the two great commandments completely nor have you fulfilled the Great Commission. In that you have sinned. In God's sight one sin is as bad as another. Any sin is bad enough to condemn a person to hell.

You have one set of sins that are socially acceptable, that God will overlook, that will not exclude you from heaven. Those are the Catholic venial sins.
You have another set of sins which you arbitratily set (as a little god), that if not confessed before you die, will send you to hell. That makes you a hypocrite and very much like a Catholic.

Romans 7:25 does not differentiate between any kind of sins. It tells one how to get victory over sin. We get victory over sin by yielding our minds to the Lord Jesus Christ, and not to the desires of the flesh. There is no difference in sins. You have only put that differenitation there in your own mind. The Bible does not differentiate between sin. God hates all sin.

Habakkuk 1:13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he?

 

[Brother Bob]

You have one set of sins that are socially acceptable, that God will overlook, that will not exclude you from heaven. Those are the Catholic venial sins.

I told you before, I have not idea what the Catholic doctrine is.
As far as different sins. Jesus taught me that.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

If I ask your wife I am sure that she will tell me in some areas that you have sinned.

If you even hinted anything bad about me to my wife, she would knock you fatter than a door nail. She is not humble like I am............... not

 

[charles_creech78]

Looks like you Jugde yourself DHK. Read what you put at the last scripture you wrote. Looks to me that you are upset with Brother Bob because he don't sin like you. God bless you brother Bob.

 

[DHK]

I told you before, I have not idea what the Catholic doctrine is.
As far as different sins. Jesus taught me that.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

Bob, don't let the last part of that verse confuse you. You are misinterpreting it to the extent that you are saying that Christ contradicts himself. Not good!!

All unrighteouslness is sin! That is what he said. True? Believe it Bob! All unrighteousness; all iniquity, all transgressions; all of it is sin. There is only one kind of sin. Jesus said so. You misinterpret the last part of the verse and in doing so make Christ contradict himself.

 

[Brother Bob]

All unrighteouslness is sin! That is what he said. True? Believe it Bob! All unrighteousness; all iniquity, all transgressions; all of it is sin. There is only one kind of sin. Jesus said so. You misinterpret the last part of the verse and in doing so make Christ contradict himself.__________________
DHK

I believe, I believe! but some of them are not unto death.

 

[DHK]

I believe, I believe! but some of them are not unto death.

Only God can decide that; not you. Your list is your own; not God's. Ananias and Sapphira sinned a sin unto death. What was the sin? Hypocrisy. The Corinthians had sinned a sin unto death. What was the sin? The abuse of the Lord's Table. But those aren't on your list.

 

[HankD]

Only God can decide that; not you. Your list is your own; not God's. Ananias and Sapphira sinned a sin unto death. What was the sin? Hypocrisy. The Corinthians had sinned a sin unto death. What was the sin? The abuse of the Lord's Table. But those aren't on your list.

Then none of us have comitted a sin unto death seeing we are all alive posting here on the BB.

HankD

 

[Brother Bob]

 

[jne1611]

I told you before, I have not idea what the Catholic doctrine is.
As far as different sins. Jesus taught me that.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.


If you even hinted anything bad about me to my wife, she would knock you fatter than a door nail. She is not humble like I am............... not

Bro. Bob, Do you have any definite Scripture that tells you what sins are not unto death?

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro. Bob, Do you have any definite Scripture that tells you what sins are not unto death?

No, I suspect it is our everyday life mistakes, like not visiting the sick, anger, even watching tv that is not suitable probably, our mouth mostly. I believe in a God that will chastise me for them though and will not let me commit the others for I have the mind of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and the blood of Christ and especially His Grace which is sufficient.

 

[DHK]

Then none of us have comitted a sin unto death seeing we are all alive posting here on the BB.

HankD

You are so right. A sin unto death is simply the last step in God's process of chastisement. God's spirit will not always strive with man. There may not will, come a time when God will take a believer out of this world; one who is constantly bringing reproach to the name of Christ. There would be two purposes for this:
1. That the name of Christ would no more be shamed.
2. As an act of mercy to that believer that he no longer lose any more reward than he already has at the JSOC.
"For we all shall give account of ourselves before God."

 

[DHK]

No, I suspect it is our everyday life mistakes, like not visiting the sick, anger, even watching tv that is not suitable probably, our mouth mostly. I believe in a God that will chastise me for them though and will not let me commit the others for I have the mind of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and the blood of Christ and especially His Grace which is sufficient.

I detect a lie.
How dare you say that you have the mind of Christ if at the same time you can say that you may be watching the wrong kind of TV show. Would Christ watch the wrong kind of TV show? Would Christ spend his time watching TV?
It is Christ that has the mind of Christ.

 

[jne1611]

No, I suspect it is our everyday life mistakes, like not visiting the sick, anger, even watching tv that is not suitable probably, our mouth mostly. I believe in a God that will chastise me for them though and will not let me commit the others for I have the mind of Christ, the indwelling of the Holy Ghost and the blood of Christ and especially His Grace which is sufficient.

Just for the sake of clarity. What others are you talking about? The list in 1Cor. 6? Or other lists as well?

 

[jne1611]

A sin unto death is simply the last step in God's process of chastisement.

I agree wholeheartedly with this statement. If all unrighteousness is sin, then that means the only One who determines the death, is God. And that is a part of chastisement according to the Scriptures. If we keep with the context, the "sin" unto death is singular, not plural, which means that it could be any sin that is deemed by the Judge to be the end of the line so to speak.
1Co 11:30 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. 1Co 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
1Co 11:32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

If we are true to the context. Paul says physical death is a means that keeps us from being condemned with this world. Sickness and bodily weakness are also listed in this text as forms of chastisement.

To be sure, these are not the only methods, but "death" is listed as a form of chastisement in the context.

It is note worthy also that the "sin" in the context of 1 Cor. 11, was partaking of the Lord's table unworthily. But God had killed some of them for it & made many more sick and weak. To some it was a sin unto "sickness", to others, a sin unto "weakness". But to some, a sin unto "death".