Biblical Chastening

[James_Newman]

Amy:
James Newman:

Do you think you are going to run and do mischief in heaven?

The punishment takes place after you die, right? What mischief will we be doing in heaven after we've received our 1000 years of hell?

Mischief now, hell then.

 

[Amy.G]

James Newman:

It is punishment. It is punishment designed to give you a godly fear and make you walk circumspectly instead of running to do mischief

Mischief now, hell then.

The punishment is to keep us from running to do mischief, but the punishment takes place in eternity, after you die. You are saying this punishment keeps you from running to do mischief in eternity.

You are not making sense.

 

[James_Newman]

James Newman:


The punishment is to keep us from running to do mischief, but the punishment takes place in eternity, after you die. You are saying this punishment keeps you from running to do mischief in eternity.

You are not making sense.

I apologize if I have not been clear. The punishment takes place during the millennium. It is not to teach you not to run riot in heaven. It is to disuade you from being disobedient now. Future punishment is a deterrent to sin. Just like if you tell your children 'if you do this, I am going to spank you.'

 

[Amy.G]

Prove this from scripture. Exercise faith means to do something based on your faith. You exercise faith when you get on your knees and pray to God because you believe that He hears you. Noah exercised faith when he built the ark because he believed God was going to send a flood. Thats what James was talking about when he said faith without works is dead being alone. That is faith that is not exercised.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Faith is not works. Works are a result of faith. Otherwise it's dead faith, a faith that can't save you.

 

[James_Newman]

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, {it is} the gift of God;
Eph 2:9 not as a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Faith is not works. Works are a result of faith. Otherwise it's dead faith, a faith that can't save you.

If James said that faith without works cannot save you, then salvation is by faith and works. If James is talking about eternal salvation, then thats how you get it, faith plus works.

 

[Amy.G]

I apologize if I have not been clear. The punishment takes place during the millennium. It is not to teach you not to run riot in heaven. It is to disuade you from being disobedient now. Future punishment is a deterrent to sin. Just like if you tell your children 'if you do this, I am going to spank you.'

That is exactly what why God chastises us in this life, to straighten us out, because He wants to conform us to the image of Christ. It would be so much easier if God would just take us to heaven at the moment of salvation, but He has chosen not to. He left us here for a reason. Once we die, chastisement serves no purpose, as the sin nature will be gone and the corruptible will put on incorruptible.


Jhn 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Those of us who have obeyed the gospel of Christ will not see the wrath of God.

I do not live in fear. I have a Savior that saves in the complete and perfect sense.

 

[James_Newman]

That is exactly what why God chastises us in this life, to straighten us out, because He wants to conform us to the image of Christ. It would be so much easier if God would just take us to heaven at the moment of salvation, but He has chosen not to. He left us here for a reason. Once we die, chastisement serves no purpose, as the sin nature will be gone and the corruptible will put on incorruptible.


Jhn 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

Those of us who have obeyed the gospel of Christ will not see the wrath of God.

I do not live in fear. I have a Savior that saves in the complete and perfect sense.

This isn't about living in fear. It's about believing God. God does chasten us in order to have us conform to the image of Christ. But why? Because Christ's kingdom is going to be glorious and there is not going to be anything in it that offends, including you and me if we don't conform to the image of Christ.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

So let me get this straight. We (according to the false teaching of ME) will suffer in hell the wrath of God in the Millenium so that we will behave now?

 

[npetreley]

It's time once again to play, "Fix The Bible!" Can you tell me what's wrong with this verse?

15 For you did not receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you received the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, “Abba, Father.”

Bzzzt wrong! We're supposed to fear 1,000 years in fire prepared for the devil and his angels so that we'll behave!

So, for $100 and a free trip to the kingdom, can you Fix The Bible?

15 For once you were saved eternally, you DID receive the spirit of bondage again to fear, the Spirit of abomination by whom we cry out, “Owie, Father, Don't hurt me again!”

Ding ding ding! That's correct! And for those of you who didn't get the answer, we give you a free copy of the ME Home Game, complete with charcoal and matches to practice your tolerance to fire!

 

[James_Newman]

So let me get this straight. We (according to the false teaching of ME) will suffer in hell the wrath of God in the Millenium so that we will behave now?

No, thats backwards. If you don't behave now, you will suffer in hell. :godisgood:

 

[Hope of Glory]

Faith is not works. Works are a result of faith. Otherwise it's dead faith, a faith that can't save you.

Works are works, even if you try to backload them onto being born from above.

 

[blackbird]

No, thats backwards. If you don't behave now, you will suffer in hell. :godisgood:

Wait a second----I'm just getting in on the conversation and can't believe what I see here

You mean---if I don't behave HERE on Earth as a Christian----God is going to send me to Hell

Baptist Purgatory???

Give me a break, James N!!!!

Thats like me telling my 12 year old son

"Boy!!! You done went and done bad wrong---but I'm not gonna correct you until you're 22 years old!!!"

No---see?? My boy does wrong---and judgment/execution of correction is immediate

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob, when you sin with the flesh you sin inwardly. You can't separate your flesh from your spirit. There are not two kinds of sins. I don't know how you objectively think this out. Can you extract your soul and spirit from your body, and sin with your flesh without using your brain (soul and spirit). Your differentiation is absolutely ludicrous. Everytime we use our flesh to sin, we use our souls and/or spirits to sin. The one cannot sin without the other. All sins are against God. That means that all sins are spiritual sins. In David's confession of his adultery and murder he said: "Against thee and thee alone have I sinned." So was it inward or of the flesh? All you have is a Roman Catholic differentiation of venial and mortal sin arbitrarily set by yourself. It isn't biblical.

So give a decent answer to 1John 2:1
"If any man sin" Why does John leave that door open?
Why does he expect believers to sin--implicit in that phrase "If any man sin"?
What is an advocate for?
Why does Christ have to be our advocate?

Explain this verse by answering these questions, and don't go off on other bunny trails. Do you think you do that this time Bob?
__________________
DHK

Paul separated them very easy, I can see where you are having trouble understanding it though. Could be because of that early Catholic teaching, who knows, I don't.

Sure hope you don't call scripture a bunny trail again!!
Rom 7:25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

If this is Catholic, then that is another thing they have right.

Rom 8:13For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

This covers both, walking in the flesh or Spirit and sinning after being saved.
5: For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6: For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7: Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8: So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
9: But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.
10: And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.
11: But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
12: Therefore, brethren, we are debtors, not to the flesh, to live after the flesh.
13: For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

1Cr 2:16For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ.
And you say, with the mind of Christ the inward man can sin. Christ does not think that way, He says "get behind me Satan".

 

[HankD]

James, I went right to the end after this thread seemed to go astray, so someone else might have pointed this out so here is my take on your inquiry: God has a reason for chastising His children:

To modify their behavior so that He can bless and reward them in this life:

Hebrews 12:11 Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
​

The fruit of righteousness is its own reward.

HankD

 

[Brother Bob]

It is because of sin we receive chastisement.

Jer 30:14All thy lovers have forgotten thee; they seek thee not; for I have wounded thee with the wound of an enemy, with the chastisement of a cruel one, for the multitude of thine iniquity; [because] thy sins were increased

Jer 30:15Why criest thou for thine affliction? thy sorrow [is] incurable for the multitude of thine iniquity: [because] thy sins were increased, I have done these things unto thee.

 

[npetreley]

Wait a second----I'm just getting in on the conversation and can't believe what I see here

You mean---if I don't behave HERE on Earth as a Christian----God is going to send me to Hell

Baptist Purgatory???

Give me a break, James N!!!!

Thats like me telling my 12 year old son

"Boy!!! You done went and done bad wrong---but I'm not gonna correct you until you're 22 years old!!!"

No---see?? My boy does wrong---and judgment/execution of correction is immediate

Amen. Not only is punishment delayed, but according to ME, you won't have a clue what tipped the scales and got you 1,000 years in the lake of fire. Just ask them. "How much unconfessed sin, and what severity of sin will it take to offset your good works to the point where you end up in hell for 1,000 years?" Or "How many good works must I perform in order to offset any possible unconfessed sin in my life, so that I may avoid 1,000 years in hell?"

You'll either get ignored, or get an answer you can't possibly understand. The latter makes the most sense since you're essentially talking to a lawyer.

 

[Brother Bob]

Amen. Not only is punishment delayed, but according to ME, you won't have a clue what tipped the scales and got you 1,000 years in the lake of fire. Just ask them. "How much unconfessed sin, and what severity of sin will it take to offset your good works to the point where you end up in hell for 1,000 years?" Or "How many good works must I perform in order to offset any possible unconfessed sin in my life, so that I may avoid 1,000 years in hell?"

You'll either get ignored, or get an answer you can't possibly understand. The latter makes the most sense since you're essentially talking to a lawyer.

I wonder where did the doctrine that the "saved" will end up in hell, come from? In all my 35 years of ministry, I have never heard this doctrine that the blood washed band would spend some time in hell, until I came on BB.

 

[npetreley]

I wonder where did the doctrine that the "saved" will end up in hell, come from? In all my 35 years of ministry, I have never heard this doctrine that the blood washed band would spend some time in hell, until I came on BB.

I agree, Bob. I've listened to the preaching of many denominations including even those that are "out there". I never heard anything like this, and I would never have expected it on a Baptist board.

 

[jne1611]

I wonder where did the doctrine that the "saved" will end up in hell, come from? In all my 35 years of ministry, I have never heard this doctrine that the blood washed band would spend some time in hell, until I came on BB.

I heard of it sometime before the BB. I was talking to a Baptist pastor that told me about it (he believed it) and it blew me away that someone could sell the blood of Christ that short. I wander when the idea started getting a following? Because from what I understand, there has been a book published called "The Rod, Will God Spare It?" by Joy Faust, forwarded by Greg Dixon, who is a widely known Baptist. the book is dedicated to expounding this doctrine.

 

[2 Timothy2:1-4]

I heard of it sometime before the BB. I was talking to a Baptist pastor that told me about it (he believed it) and it blew me away that someone could sell the blood of Christ that short.

This goes far beyond selling the Blood of Christ short. It perverts the very gospel that redeems a fallen man from sin. It is a heresy in its clearest form.