Biblical Chastening

[DHK]

Sure, in what sense do you believe unbelievers to be grafted into the vine?

1. Who said anything about unbelievers being grafted into anything.
2. Show me any verse about "grafting" in John 15 which is the only passage that I referred to concerning a vine or tree bringing forth fruit.

 

[TCGreek]

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I didn't see anything in there about exercising faith.

What is faith? How are we saved by grace through faith?

 

[James_Newman]

1. Who said anything about unbelievers being grafted into anything.
2. Show me any verse about "grafting" in John 15 which is the only passage that I referred to concerning a vine or tree bringing forth fruit.

OK, how did the unbeliever get into the vine?

John 15:1-2
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

 

[James_Newman]

What is faith? How are we saved by grace through faith?

Acts 16:31
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

They didn't say believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and then go move some mountains or something to 'exercise' faith. Believe only.

 

[Hope of Glory]

I am talking about chastise and if you thank that all that will come at the end

Once again, this is not something we've said. But, I'm beginning to expect you to make things up.

We have not only stated that we are chastized in the flesh, but sometimes we pay the penalty in the flesh when someone else sins.

That does not preclude the chastizment the comes later for unconfessed sin.

Jesus' blood is sufficient to cover all sin.

But, you have to access it.

You do that by confessing your sin.

If you don't take advantage of it, doesn't mean the offer isn't there.

Tell you what? I'll give you $5. It's yours.

All you have to do is pick it up. I'm not shipping it to you.

Is it your $5?

Do you have it?

 

[TCGreek]

Acts 16:31
31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

They didn't say believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and then go move some mountains or something to 'exercise' faith. Believe only.

1. How do you believe, if not to exercise your faith?

2. Are you thinking that believe and faith have two different meanings in Acts 16 and Eph 2?

 

[Hope of Glory]

Every branch in me that beareth not fruit.

What does it mean to be in him?

 

[TCGreek]

1. For the record, having been regenerated, a person is enabled by God to repent and place faith in Christ for salvation.

2. Salvation is wholly a work of God. Even though the person exercises faith, that too is seen as an enablement by God. Salvation is monergistic.

 

[DHK]

Isa 1:18¶Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Your belief don't make a bit of sense as far as the remembering part. You now are trying to find a way out of the remembering part by saying "its a figure of speech" when He said they be as scarlet, they shall be white as snow.

So tell me your view on God, Bob. You have one of two choices:
1. He is God almighty, the Creator of the universe, omniscient in all things (and thus the word "remember does not apply to him in a negative since--as in forget) or:
2. Your view on God is that he is an old man in the sky that has Alzheimer's and tends to forget sins as soon as someone becomes saved, only because he is kind, gentle and merciful to his children.

What is your view of God, Bob?

Advocate means to plead your case, so Jesus when you sin, has to plead your case to God, and God forgives you because Jesus pleaded for you. So, you receive forgiveness for each sin you commit after salvation, when it is committed. :BangHead: Your theology turns out to be nothing but "a ticket to sin". It is absolutely insane to say the world commits adultery and they are "hell bound" but if the saved commit adultery "it is covered at the cross".

For the unsaved Jesus offers to be your Savior (not your advocate). If you reject him he will someday be your Judge.
For the saved, Jesus offers to be your Advocate (not your Savior). He has already accomplished the work of salvation. Now he sits on the right hand of God interceeding for us; being our Advocate. This position is for the believers only. And, if perchance, a believer is in a state of sin when he dies, because Christ is His Saviour, his sin is covered by the blood of Christ--all of them were at the time of salvation, so he could never lose that salvation.

The thief died a thief. He never did a good work in his life. He wasn't even baptized. He was saved, but died a criminal, on the cross, in the very act of being executed. This is a good example of the fact that we never know what the last thoughts of a dying sinful man are. Only God has the right to judge those thoughts. He was a thief; and yet went to paradise. If his thoughts were not recorded, you would have condemned him to Hell.

 

[James_Newman]

1. For the record, having been regenerated, a person is enabled by God to repent and place faith in Christ for salvation.

2. Salvation is wholly a work of God. Even though the person exercises faith, that too is seen as an enablement by God. Salvation is monergistic.

Then I guess that makes you a Calvinist.

 

[James_Newman]

1. How do you believe, if not to exercise your faith?

2. Are you thinking that believe and faith have two different meanings in Acts 16 and Eph 2?

You have to have faith before you can 'exercise' it. By faith, Noah moved with fear. Believe first. Build the boat after.

 

[Brother Bob]

So tell me your view on God, Bob. You have one of two choices:
1. He is God almighty, the Creator of the universe, omniscient in all things (and thus the word "remember does not apply to him in a negative since--as in forget) or:
2. Your view on God is that he is an old man in the sky that has Alzheimer's and tends to forget sins as soon as someone becomes saved, only because he is kind, gentle and merciful to his children.

What is your view of God, Bob?

My veiw on God is that He cannot lie? You believe when God says "never to be remember against you anymore" does not really mean that, but means every time you commit sin, you will have to confess your sin and have Jesus "plead" your case. Why would He have to "plead your case", if it was already forgiven. I have learned how the "Mega" churches fill their house now.

For the unsaved Jesus offers to be your Savior (not your advocate). If you reject him he will someday be your Judge.
For the saved, Jesus offers to be your Advocate (not your Savior). He has already accomplished the work of salvation. Now he sits on the right hand of God interceeding for us; being our Advocate. This position is for the believers only. And, if perchance, a believer is in a state of sin when he dies, because Christ is His Saviour, his sin is covered by the blood of Christ--all of them were at the time of salvation, so he could never lose that salvation.

The thief died a thief. He never did a good work in his life. He wasn't even baptized. He was saved, but died a criminal, on the cross, in the very act of being executed. This is a good example of the fact that we never know what the last thoughts of a dying sinful man are. Only God has the right to judge those thoughts. He was a thief; and yet went to paradise. If his thoughts were not recorded, you would have condemned him to Hell.
__________________
DHK

If your veiw is correct, then John the Baptist lost his head in vain. He should of told the King to accept Christ, then it would be lawful for him to have his brother Phillip's wife.

 

[Amy.G]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Amy.G
James, what is the purpose of the 1000 years in outerdarkness?

James Newman:

To motivate you to not want to go there.

So He threatens us with hell as motivation to be good??

God chastens us in this life in order to change us, make us go in a different direction, to become Christ like.

1000 years of outerdarkness is nothing but punishment, which is not for the believer. It is for the unbeliever.


Jhn 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Those who are Christ's will be where He is. Those in hell, outerdarkness, lake of fire do NOT belong to Christ.

It's very simple if you believe God's word instead of making up your own theology.

 

[Amy.G]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TCGreek
My grace is nothing to the Catholics. Eph 2:8, 9 is what I believe. I don't know what you are looking for.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I didn't see anything in there about exercising faith.

By grace are ye saved THROUGH faith. What do you mean there's nothing there about excercising faith? It says it right there. "THROUGH faith".

 

[James_Newman]

James Newman:

So He threatens us with hell as motivation to be good??

Do you spank your children? Why do you do it if you don't want them to be good?

God chastens us in this life in order to change us, make us go in a different direction, to become Christ like.

And then you die and put on a party hat regardless? Did you ever think that all this training might have a purpose beyond this world, that in fact you are being prepared for the next?

1000 years of outerdarkness is nothing but punishment, which is not for the believer. It is for the unbeliever.

It is punishment. It is punishment designed to give you a godly fear and make you walk circumspectly instead of running to do mischief.

Jhn 17:24 "Father, I desire that they also, whom You have given Me, be with Me where I am, so that they may see My glory which You have given Me, for You loved Me before the foundation of the world.

Those who are Christ's will be where He is. Those in hell, outerdarkness, lake of fire do NOT belong to Christ.

It's very simple if you believe God's word instead of making up your own theology.

Then ignore everything I say. You have nothing to worry about.

 

[DHK]

My veiw on God is that He cannot lie? You believe when God says "never to be remember against you anymore" does not really mean that, but means every time you commit sin, you will have to confess your sin and have Jesus "plead" your case. Why would He have to "plead your case", if it was already forgiven. I have learned how the "Mega" churches fill their house now.

I am sorry if you refuse to accept figurative expressions, even though I have given you many examples. Perhaps you had better bury the hatchet.

If your veiw is correct, then John the Baptist lost his head in vain. He should of told the King to accept Christ, then it would be lawful for him to have his brother Phillip's wife.

When a person becomes saved he doesn't get a licence to sin. In fact sin becomes even more abhorrent to him. Is that such a hard concept to understand?

 

[TCGreek]

By grace are ye saved THROUGH faith. What do you mean there's nothing there about excercising faith? It says it right there. "THROUGH faith".

A precious sister in the Lord can see how simple that is. We don't need to complicate stuff. It's Through Faith.

Thank you,
Amy.

 

[James_Newman]

By grace are ye saved THROUGH faith. What do you mean there's nothing there about excercising faith? It says it right there. "THROUGH faith".

OK, so how much works do you have to have before you get to saved?

 

[DHK]

It's very simple if you believe God's word instead of making up your own theology.

I think it is Joey Faust's theology.

 

[TCGreek]

OK, so how much works do you have to have before you get to saved?

What does this question have to do with Paul's statement "By grace you are saved through faith."?