Billy Graham's dark secret revealed

[Johnv]

Originally posted by steaver:
Do you believe the Spirit of Christ would lead His child to vote for one who openly supports the murder of un-born babies?

Do you believe the Spirit of Christ would lead His child to vote for one who openly supports slavery? Or allowing hungry people to die on the street? Or a multitude of other things that are scripturally offensive to the Lord?

What you're doing is attempting to make an unrighteous judgement of the brethren by implying that they are neither Christian, nor filled with the Spirit, if they do not vote in a manner contiguous with the way you would vote. And what's worse, you don't even see fault in your doing so. Sad.

 

[Nevertheless]

Originally posted by gb93433:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by D28guy:
But to say that every person who votes for a candidate who supports abortion is a baby killer is absurd.

Abortion is still going on. It is big business without any responsibility. At this point I see no difference in the two candidates except to watch as Bush takes our personal freedoms away. When a city can line the pockets of wealthy business owners to make a profit for the city something is wrong. When a city can take a man's business which has made him a living for many years and give it to another business owner something is wrong.

Isn't that at the heart of commmunism? </font>[/QUOTE]Hmmm . . . Last time I looked there was no one on the Supreme Court named Bush . . .

 

[steaver]

I think that if you were able to put together a cogent and thoughtful argument, rather than just calling names, you'd be much more successful in persuading people and helping them to consider both sides of the issue.

Thanks Mike, but the issue we have been discussing is whether or not a Christian should vote for a canidate who supports murder. I think what you have in mind is a discussion on whether abortion is right or wrong. I haven't found a Christian here yet that believes it isn't anything less than murder. The problem is some don't believe it is a big enough evil to cast a vote against it. I find that sad and troubling.

Would you be willing to have a dialogue with me playing the pro-choice role, so that we can help you to come up with a more persuasive argument than, "You're a baby killer. You're going to Hell"?

Unrepentive murderers do go to hell. The Word of God states so. Truth always irritates the unwilling to repent crowd.

If I declare that I support the right for women to murder their unborn babies as one of my political positions and I ask for your vote to put me in an office which has the power to write and sustain laws that will keep the murder going...then those who vote for me are agreeing with me in murder. Plain and simple.

Now some say that murder might be the lesser of two evils. Ok, give me an evil political issue which trumps the ripping apart of unborn babies in the womb and we will have a dialogue about it.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

Do you believe the Spirit of Christ would lead His child to vote for one who openly supports slavery? Or allowing hungry people to die on the street? Or a multitude of other things that are scripturally offensive to the Lord?

No...No...and No.

I answered your questions...will you answer mine?

"Do you believe the Spirit of Christ would lead His child to vote for one who openly supports the murder of un-born babies?"

What you're doing is attempting to make an unrighteous judgement of the brethren by implying that they are neither Christian, nor filled with the Spirit, if they do not vote in a manner contiguous with the way you would vote.

You haven't been reading my post closely. I am not one of those who says one thing and means another. Like.."I hate abortion, but it is ok to vote for canidates who support it". No one should vote my way unless my way is God's way and then they are voting God's way and not my way.

I said that we should take all of the issues and compare them with scripture and see which party or canidate is following Jesus and which is not. Doesn't that sound Christian and fair?

Here's the problem Johnv...no one will do it because they know that nothing is a greater evil than infant murder! (And millions of them are slaughtered each decade at the least) I want to see a lesser evil than that! (edit...sorry... GREATER evil than that)

God Bless!

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by steaver:
No...No...and No.

So, you would not vote for George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, et al?

I answered your questions...will you answer mine?

Thomas Jefferson was against slavery. This despite the fact that he owned slaves, and, from a political stance, was a proponent of keeping slavery a legal institution for the time being.

In such fashion, I would vote for someone who is against abortion, even if they are not seeking to make the abolish abortion at this time. I would not, howoever, vote for someone who does not personally object to abortion.

I ultimately choose whom and what to vote for after weighing a multitude of issues, followed by private prayer and meditation. I never vote based on one sole issue. I don't think I've ever made a spiritually inappropriate vote. I encourage all to vote in like manner.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

Billy Graham is a good and holy man who does the work of God. I don't understand the criticism. I have to bite my tongue every time I vote republican because of the pro-life issues. I Disagree with Bush on War issues, many health issues, social security issues. The ONLY things I do agree with are Pro-life, and Pro-marriage. My thoughts are: IF he does NOT get Pro-life, Pro-marriage people in the courts, or Work on laws in these regards, the I will also abandon the republicans. If I disagree with them on everything, and they ONLY give Lip service to the important issues, then I will go back and at least get my other issues dealt with. Perhaps Graham has Watched the Republicans Speak pro-life and NOT do anything for a long time. I am sure if you asked him, that is pro-life.

peace

 

[steaver]

So, you would not vote for George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, et al?

I would have to research them myself before I could give an informed answer. I don't believe slavery is a current political issue. Let's stay in the present situation.

In such fashion, I would vote for someone who is against abortion, even if they are not seeking to make the abolish abortion at this time. I would not, howoever, vote for someone who does not personally object to abortion.

Sounds good.

I ultimately choose whom and what to vote for after weighing a multitude of issues, followed by private prayer and meditation. I never vote based on one sole issue. I don't think I've ever made a spiritually inappropriate vote. I encourage all to vote in like manner.

Amen.

Now could you answer my questions?

""Do you believe the Spirit of Christ would lead His child to vote for one who openly supports the murder of un-born babies?"

"I said that we should take all of the issues and compare them with scripture and see which party or canidate is following Jesus and which is not. Doesn't that sound Christian and fair?"

Also you obviously believe in the choosing of the "lesser of two evils" approach. So what issue would you say carries a greater evil than murdering babies? Maybe there are two or three that together become greater than murdering babies?

God Bless!

 

[untangled]

Is there not anything else better to do than to insult Billy Graham? It gets a bit old hearing people post about how liberal or heretical or something he is. I wish I had a dollar for every post about him. I'd retire before I'm 30.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: Is there not anything else better to do than to insult Billy Graham?

REsponse: I agree. He is a good man who has served the lord with his life. At this point in his life we should be thanking him.

peace

 

[steaver]

Is there not anything else better to do than to insult Billy Graham? It gets a bit old hearing people post about how liberal or heretical or something he is.

So how do you confront hypocrisy? Should we ignore it? Does one get a free pass if they have done enough good?

Does faith come by hearing and hearing by the word of God?

Is it by faith ye are saved, and that not of yourselves?

Or...are folks who love "God", although without faith in Christ, saved as well?

Billy said that over his travels abroad he encountered many God loving folks even though they were Hindu or Budist and the like and thus has concluded that God must be saving some of them.

I wonder what was he there for? Did he not tell theses God loving folks about God's Son and that all have sinned and fall short? Did he not tell them that they must believe in Jesus Christ for redemption?

If he did, then why didn't these God loving folks embrace Jesus Christ and repent of their religion? Why didn't Billy give testimony of how thousands of them came to the saving knowledge of Jesus Christ and have renounced Hinduism and the like?

No, he just said that they love God in their own way and therefor God must be saving them.

That is a lie and it is declaring the Word of God a lie as well. That is hypocrisy when you then speak another message to the sheep at home.

Billy done well for many years, God Bless him. He should have and could have finished his race preaching the pure Word of the Lord. I pray that the millions who have heard him declare salvation apart from the Word of God will somehow, someday hear the Truth and receive Christ, putting away their false religions.

God Bless!

 

[Ed Edwards]

Would somebody remind me of the verse
that says it is alright to vilify and malign
our Christian Brother if we find a speck
in his eye?

Billy Grahmn preached the salvation gospel
to 210,000,000 people world-wide.
This is a number of people similiar to the
total population of Earth in 33AD when
Jesus was Resurrected. Billy Grahmn is the
best evangelist of the 2ed millinnium (1001-2000)
and the most prolific evangelist ever.
IMHO Billy Grahmn is the best Christian
Evangelist ever.

 

[steaver]

Would somebody remind me of the verse
that says it is alright to vilify and malign
our Christian Brother if we find a speck
in his eye?

There is none about maligning a Christian brother, but here is the one about removing the specks....Matthew 7:1-5.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

IMHO Billy Grahmn is the best Christian
Evangelist ever.

I agree, he was one of the best.

God Bless!

 

[TP]

Greetings,

You said: Billy Grahmn is the best Christian
Evangelist ever.

Reponse: Yes, he is good. But in Manila Pope John Paul II preached Jesus Christ to 10 million people at ONE time. I saw him preach Jesus Christ along with 1.5 million others in Paris at world youth day. He got crowds of 6000 every wednesday where he preached Jesus in his audience hall. Over the last century I would probably call him the greatest evangelist. Although billy Graham was very good as well.

peace

 

[Ed Edwards]

Maybe i'm biased. I worked with Billy Grahamn
as a counselor. I never worked with
Pope John Paul II.

 

[TP]

Greetings,

I am biased as well. But the world is big enough for 2 great men.

peace

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by TP:
Greetings,

I am biased as well. But the world is big enough for 2 great men.

peace

I agree.

1. The world is big enough for 2 great men
(such as Billy Grahmn and Pope John Paul II)

2. you are biased as well
But hey, i could never condemn one for being
faithful to he whom one works for/with.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by steaver:
""Do you believe the Spirit of Christ would lead His child to vote for one who openly supports the murder of un-born babies?"

The Holy Spirit is free to move people as He wishes. It's within the realm of possibility. If the Holy Spirit chooses to do so, even though I might have a difficult time reconciling that with my biblical values, I must accept that God has a greater plan in mind thanI could possibly conceive.

So what issue would you say carries a greater evil than murdering babies?

Upholding individual liberties guaranteed by the Constitution is my greatest concern. It is greater to me that the issues of abortion, death penalty, euthenasia, property rights, slavery, or religion.

 

[billwald]

Voting is the opiate of the people. Doesn't matter for whom you vote because nothing is going to change the flow of assets from the working people to our owners. Our owners have concluded that there are to many people in the world so nothing is going to stop abortion until Jesus returns.

 

[steaver]

The Holy Spirit is free to move people as He wishes.

He certainly is. Just a note that my question was pointed specificly at His children and not just anyone in general.

It's within the realm of possibility.

Are you sure? I think you know the character of God from the scriptures and I don't think you really believe that Jesus would lead His child, when asked mind you through prayer, to support another person who supports murder. Maybe you do, I guess you do, unless you state otherwise. I am very surprised at your answer. What can I say, everyone knows were you stand now concerning the character of Christ. I find your belief troubling.

If the Holy Spirit chooses to do so, even though I might have a difficult time reconciling that with my biblical values, I must accept that God has a greater plan in mind thanI could possibly conceive.

Does this mean that the Holy Spirit has never personally lead you to vote for a canidate who supports murder? You speak as though you think it is highly unlikely, but believe it is possible, yet it never happened to you. Do you personally know of anyone that it happened to?

Upholding individual liberties guaranteed by the Constitution is my greatest concern. It is greater to me that the issues of abortion, death penalty, euthenasia, property rights, slavery, or religion.

Isn't abortion, death penalty, euthenasia, property rights, slavery, or religion ALL about individual liberties? Please be more specific.

God Bless!