Bishop John Spong re-thinks Heaven & Hell

[Amy.G]

Not at all. Purgatory can be considered the anti-chamber of Heaven - something like an isolation chamber as it were. You cannot enter in (or go through the gates) until you are purified.

Peace!

I think I saw that on an episode of Twilight Zone. :laugh:

 

[BillySunday1935]

She asked for your scripture to support this. You failed to provide it.

And you failed to read what I posted (as usual). Ref post #59.

Our purification has already been completed:

So, no matter what we do (or fail to do) - no matter what sins(s) we commit, our purification has already been completed? If we are already pure, then we cannot sin. Are you pure Rev? I'm not.

Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

Wow - Works as part of salvation....

And it will be realized at our redemption:

Rom 8:23 And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit, the redemption of our body.

Yes it WILL (future tense) be realized. And that precludes a future cleansing how?

[
1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I disagree and have provided reams of scripture challeneging the idea that one cannot lose one's salvation....

[Scripture is the only authoritative source for revelation from God:

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

OK - lets disect 2 Ti 3:16:

Is scripture inspired? Yes!
Is scripture profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness? Yes!
Is scripture instructive? Yes!
Is scripture authoritative? Yes!
Is scripture the only authority? No - and 2 Ti 3:16 does not state that it is.

Sources outside of scripture bear no authority or credibility as coming from God. That is a key Baptist doctrine and anyone who holds to anything otherwise is not a Baptist.

And where do you get the authority and credibility to make such a statement? I mean - since YOU are making this statement and THAT is outside of scripture and all...

Peace!

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Calm down. :laugh:

We are saved and redeemed (in the here & now), yet we will not see the end result until death. Make sense?

It makes a sort of sense. But not really. Why wait until we're dead? Instead God places a living spirit in a dead body so until I die I'm really a zombie. Sounds wrong.

 

[BillySunday1935]

I think I saw that on an episode of Twilight Zone. :laugh:

More likely you saw it on Sponge Bob Square Pants. :thumbs:

 

[Amy.G]

It makes a sort of sense. But not really. Why wait until we're dead? Instead God places a living spirit in a dead body so until I die I'm really a zombie. Sounds wrong.

You're not a zombie. But it is God's design to do it this way. I think it has something to do with "free will" thingy. :tongue3:
While we are on this earth, God is conforming us to the image of Christ. This is done through our own choice to follow Him or not. A choice we face 24/7. Every time we choose to obey Christ, we become a little more like Him. This is God's plan and I gave up questioning why. I just decided He knows more than I do.

 

[Amy.G]

More likely you saw it on Sponge Bob Square Pants. :thumbs:

Never seen the show. I'm old.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

You're not a zombie. But it is God's design to do it this way. I think it has something to do with "free will" thingy. :tongue3:
While we are on this earth, God is conforming us to the image of Christ. This is done through our own choice to follow Him or not. A choice we face 24/7. Every time we choose to obey Christ, we become a little more like Him. This is God's plan and I gave up questioning why. I just decided He knows more than I do.

I don't know. I'm in a dead body waking around. Sounds Zombie like to me. And as much as I obey God I will never be 100% conformed to the image of Christ. So what happens then?

Actually I have to agree with your last sentence. Its all above my head.

 

[BillySunday1935]

What I believe comes straight from God's word.

What you believe is YOUR interpretation of God's word and it's one with which I completely disagree. I'll ask you again -- why is your interpretation of scripture less fallible than mine or anyone else's for that matter?

I have proven it to you. You have ignored it and state that there are outside sources to prove your view. (not everything was written in the Bible, as you claim) Your only source so far is only your opinion.

Then why not try addressing the scripture that I gave you in post #59 instead of giving me YOUR opinion?
(Actually, the bible says that not everything was written in the bible - not me) Ref: (John 20:30; 21:35)

In one post you say "there must be a purification that takes place after one’s death and before one enters heaven."\

In another post you say "Purgatory (or whatever you wish to call it) is part of heaven."

Which is it? If you would only stick to scripture, you would not be caught in these contradictions, because the truth is in God's word.

Its both - no contradicitions there. Do you believe that Jesus was both fully God and fully man? He can't be both right? Which is it?

"If you would only stick to scripture, you would not be caught in these contradictions, because the truth is in God's word" Right....:thumbs:

Peace!

 

[annsni]

Not at all. Purgatory can be considered the anti-chamber of Heaven - something like an isolation chamber as it were. You cannot enter in (or go through the gates) until you are purified.

Peace!

But you said it's in heaven - whether it's an ante-chamber or not, it's still in heaven.

But do you have ANY biblical support for this or are you going by your extra-biblical thoughts for your doctrine?

 

[Amy.G]

What you believe is YOUR interpretation of God's word and it's one with which I completely disagree. I'll ask you again -- why is your interpretation of scripture less fallible that mine or anyone else's for that matter?

Your view is not based on scripture. That is why it is fallible.

Then why not try addressing the scripture that I gave you in post #59 instead of giving me YOUR opinion?
(Actually, the bible says that not everything was written in the bible - not me)

I did. Post #60

Its both - no contradicitions there. Do you believe that Jesus was both fully God and fully man? He can't be both right? Which is it?

I can't be both. You said purgatory purification takes place before heaven, then you said it takes place in heaven. Total contradiction.

"If you would only stick to scripture, you would not be caught in these contradictions, because the truth is in God's word" Right....:thumbs:

Peace!

Glad you agree. Now please start supplying the scripture to support your beliefs. I still would like to see where the Bible speaks about a "compartment" in heaven that purifies people. How about an outside source? Do you even have that?

 

[rbell]

Sigh...more "Baptist Doctrine" from our "Southern Baptist."

Maybe he'll deal with the rosary on his next thread.

 

[BillySunday1935]

But you said it's in heaven - whether it's an ante-chamber or not, it's still in heaven."

What - do you actually believe that heaven is one huge place with no divisions? Are you saying that God cannot do this if he wants?

But do you have ANY biblical support for this or are you going by your extra-biblical thoughts for your doctrine?

R E A D :null: P O S T :null: # 5 9.

Peace!

 

[Amy.G]

I don't know. I'm in a dead body waking around. Sounds Zombie like to me. And as much as I obey God I will never be 100% conformed to the image of Christ. So what happens then?

Actually I have to agree with your last sentence. Its all above my head.

Who said you're walking around in a dead body? You're breathing aren't you? :smilewinkgrin:

 

[BillySunday1935]

Sigh...more "Baptist Doctrine" from our "Southern Baptist."

Maybe he'll deal with the rosary on his next thread.

:null:

 

[Amy.G]

BS, you say that I learned what I believe from other people. I'm just wondering where you learned what you believe? It wasn't in the Baptist Church, since you claim to be a Baptist. It's not in the Bible, so you must have learned this stuff from somebody. Who?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Who said you're walking around in a dead body? You're breathing aren't you? :smilewinkgrin:

The apostle Paul said I was in a dead body. :tear:

 

[lori4dogs]

BS, you say that I learned what I believe from other people. I'm just wondering where you learned what you believe? It wasn't in the Baptist Church, since you claim to be a Baptist. It's not in the Bible, so you must have learned this stuff from somebody. Who?

I learned most of what I now believe about Catholicism right here on the Baptist Board while I was still Baptist. This was back in the day before 'The Great Purge'.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

What - do you actually believe that heaven is one huge place with no divisions? Are you saying that God cannot do this if he wants?



R E A D :null: P O S T :null: # 5 9.

Peace!

So what you are basically saying is that heaven has a purification Chamber where we are tossed into, get burned, then scrubbed, and then washed off by Saints in air tight radiation anti sin suites carrying hoses until our skin is rubbed raw. Then we are led into an air chamber where we have to wait until the preasure matches that in heaven. Once thats accomplished the air tight seal is then open while we adjust to the new heaven air and are finally let in throught a 10 inch blast proof door? is that where you're going with it? Just curious.

 

[Amy.G]

The apostle Paul said I was in a dead body. :tear:

Where did he say that? Let's look at the scripture.

 

[Amy.G]

So what you are basically saying is that heaven has a purification Chamber where we are tossed into, get burned, then scrubbed, and then washed off by Saints in air tight radiation anti sin suites carrying hoses until our skin is rubbed raw. Then we are led into an air chamber where we have to wait until the preasure matches that in heaven. Once thats accomplished the air tight seal is then open while we adjust to the new heaven air and are finally let in throught a 10 inch blast proof door? is that where you're going with it? Just curious.

I TOLD you I saw that on Twilight Zone! :laugh: