Blind leading the Blind

[steaver]

He had a perfect platform to speak the truth and he failed. But how can he speak the truth when he has been taught such lies from Satan? Roman Catholic Bishop Tells Jewish Host Ben Shapiro: Those ‘Outside of the Explicit Christian Faith Can Be Saved’

 

[Adonia]

He had a perfect platform to speak the truth and he failed. But how can he speak the truth when he has been taught such lies from Satan? Roman Catholic Bishop Tells Jewish Host Ben Shapiro: Those ‘Outside of the Explicit Christian Faith Can Be Saved’

So tell us enlightened one, are all Jews are condemned to hell?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

So tell us enlightened one, are all Jews are condemned to hell?

John 3:16-18 KJV
[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. [18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

 

[steaver]

So tell us enlightened one, are all Jews are condemned to hell?

What saith the scripture? Jordan had no trouble finding the answer in scripture.

What saith Paul? A Jew himself. "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them." (Ro 11)

What Paul? They are not already saved just because they are Jews? The Bishop was given an opportunity to magnify his office and preach Jesus Christ the Son of God, the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Him. And he chose to leave the man with a false hope instead. Very sad.........but the bishop has been deceived and just repeats the lies he has been fed rather than referring to the scripture.

 

[Adonia]

What saith the scripture? Jordan had no trouble finding the answer in scripture.

What saith Paul? A Jew himself. "For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them." (Ro 11)

What Paul? They are not already saved just because they are Jews? The Bishop was given an opportunity to magnify his office and preach Jesus Christ the Son of God, the way, the truth and the life, no man cometh unto the Father but by Him. And he chose to leave the man with a false hope instead. Very sad.........but the bishop has been deceived and just repeats the lies he has been fed rather than referring to the scripture.

You and that other man, Mr. Gendron, have your own interpretation on the subject. I think the Bishop's reasoning was spot on, especially when he said the following: “John Henry Newman said that the conscience is the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul. It’s a very interesting characterization, that it is, in fact, the voice of Christ—if He’s the logos made flesh, He’s the divine mind or reason made flesh—that when I follow my conscience, I’m following Him, whether I know it explicitly or not,”

We have been over this before and to you the only person saved is the Evangelical Christian who interprets the Scriptures in a particular way in accordance with your particular doctrines. Let us all seek to emulate the Lord with love in all things and allow Him to make the final decision concerning salvation at the appropriate time.

Again my friend please answer the question with a yes or no - your personal opinion please. Are all Jews who ever lived condemned to hell?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

You and that other man, Mr. Gendron, have your own interpretation on the subject. I think the Bishop's reasoning was spot on, especially when he said the following: “John Henry Newman said that the conscience is the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul. It’s a very interesting characterization, that it is, in fact, the voice of Christ—if He’s the logos made flesh, He’s the divine mind or reason made flesh—that when I follow my conscience, I’m following Him, whether I know it explicitly or not,”

We have been over this before and to you the only person saved is the Evangelical Christian who interprets the Scriptures in a particular way in accordance with your particular doctrines. Let us all seek to emulate the Lord with love in all things and allow Him to make the final decision concerning salvation at the appropriate time.

Again my friend please answer the question with a yes or no - your personal opinion please. Are all Jews who ever lived condemned to hell?

You have NO AUTHORITY for your doctrine but you are refuted decisively by the following facts.

1. The Gospel message is what saves

Romans 1:16 KJV
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

2. The Preaching of the Gospel is the means ordained by God for people to find salvation

1 Corinthians 1:18,21 KJV
[18] For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. [21] For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

3.
Romans 10:9-14 KJV
[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [12] For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. [13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. [14] How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?

You cannot be saved without calling upon the Lord, you cannot call on the Lord if you have not believed...therefore you cannot be saved without believing the Gospel...

The Jews do NOT believe the Gospel therefore they do not have the power of God unto salvation.

Your absurd concept that the conscience is Christ is not found ANYWHERE in scripture.

ALL JEWS today who have not yet believed that Jesus Christ is their Messiah who died for their sins, was buried and rose again are in fact condemned according to John 3:18, unless they choose to believe the Gospel.

There is no logical or consistent way for you to interpret the above texts in a way that would support your doctrine, you must twist, ignore, and mutilate the plain teachings of the scriptures.

Repent of your false teaching, turn away from
Trusting in your false Catholic doctrines of sacraments/works and put your faith in the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ ALONE.

The fact that you make such statements shows us that you yourself do not believe in the name of the Son of God and you yourself stand condemnded according to John 3:18.

If you truly believe John 3:16-18 you would not make such false statements as you have above.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

He had a perfect platform to speak the truth and he failed. But how can he speak the truth when he has been taught such lies from Satan? Roman Catholic Bishop Tells Jewish Host Ben Shapiro: Those ‘Outside of the Explicit Christian Faith Can Be Saved’

Didn’t Ben already know the answer he would get? He and some other Jews are around Christians a lot. But I wonder if Ben has ever read the New Testament. Rabbis generally forbid it. This response will serve to reinforce such prohibitions.

 

[HankD]

I think we should be very careful to say who (even at a group level) is saved or not saved.

Sure its not wrong to quote scripture.

But we should go forth with the presumption that ALL need the gospel of the forgiveness of sin, the promise of eternal life through faith in the person and work of Jesus Christ.

 

[steaver]

I think we should be very careful to say who (even at a group level) is saved or not saved.

Why? Don't we know who the bible says is saved and who will not be saved?

 

[steaver]

Again my friend please answer the question with a yes or no - your personal opinion please. Are all Jews who ever lived condemned to hell?

Personal opinions are worthless. I can tell you what I know as a matter of fact plainly written for us from God's Word. That answer would be No. All the NT Holy Spirit inspired writers were Jews and were saved. Now you answer me please, why were they saved?

 

[HankD]

Why? Don't we know who the bible says is saved and who will not be saved?

Sure but I try to not make it personal in the wrong way.

You've been around the BB for a while steaver you have seen how judgemental we can become towards one another.

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

Isn't it amazing steaver that right after this bit of advice Jesus then says :

6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

WAIT! He just said not to judge but now asks us to make a judgement to discern a presumably spiritual hog and or dog and treat them accordingly.

I believe there is a righteous judgement - He says so in John 7:14.

Its kind of like the difference between A District Attorney and a Physician.

We are to be as the Good Physician and judge the symptoms to heal the inner sickness and not to be accuser, judge, jury and executioner..

 

[Adonia]

Personal opinions are worthless. I can tell you what I know as a matter of fact plainly written for us from God's Word. That answer would be No. All the NT Holy Spirit inspired writers were Jews and were saved. Now you answer me please, why were they saved?

Oh I see, only the Jews who believed in Jesus were saved, all the others from that time until today go straight to hell. - okay, got it. Funny how some evangelical Christians continue to maintain that the Jews are still God's chosen people and need not convert to Christianity to remain so. They are among the staunchest supporters of the Jewish people and state. - haven't you ever heard of that?

 

[Adonia]

The fact that you make such statements shows us that you yourself do not believe in the name of the Son of God and you yourself stand condemnded according to John 3:18.

I couldn't disagree more. I not only believe in the name of Jesus Christ, but I believe in how the Scriptures say we should worship Him by participating in the Holy Mass and communing with Him through the Holy Eucharist. We simply see things regarding the Christian faith differently - I take the orthodox view and you do not.

You might not pay him any heed, but John Henry Neuman was one of the foremost theologians ever in the history of orthodox Christianity. His conversion from Anglicanism to the Catholic Church was a momentous occasion in the history of the Church. Couple him with the Catholic Church and I find it is more profitable to listen to them regarding things than to adhere to your view on the subject.

 

[steaver]

Oh I see, only the Jews who believed in Jesus were saved, all the others from that time until today go straight to hell. - okay, got it.

Is that your answer? "Only the Jews who believed in Jesus were saved"

I asked you why the NT writers were saved?

 

[Jordan Kurecki]

I couldn't disagree more. I not only believe in the name of Jesus Christ, but I believe in how the Scriptures say we should worship Him by participating in the Holy Mass and communing with Him through the Holy Eucharist. We simply see things regarding the Christian faith differently - I take the orthodox view and you do not.

You might not pay him any heed, but John Henry Neuman was one of the foremost theologians ever in the history of orthodox Christianity. His conversion from Anglicanism to the Catholic Church was a momentous occasion in the history of the Church. Couple him with the Catholic Church and I find it is more profitable to listen to them regarding things than to adhere to your view on the subject.

The "orthodox" view is the one taken by Apostles as they gave it to us in the New Testament.

You clearly and most patently do NOT believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, if you truly believed that Jesus Christ died for your sins, you would not be trusting in the sacramental system of the Catholic Church.

You cannot believe in both. Biblical faith is a trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for your justification. You cannot trust in both Jesus Christ and in the Roman Catholics system of works salvation.

The fact that you put your trust in the Catholic system shows that you are not really trusting in Christ, therefore no you are not believing in the name of the son of God.

 

[37818]

So tell us enlightened one, are all Jews are condemned to hell?

John 14:6. John 5:43-47.

 

[Yeshua1]

So tell us enlightened one, are all Jews are condemned to hell?

The ones that have rejected Jesus as their messiah are!

 

[Yeshua1]

You and that other man, Mr. Gendron, have your own interpretation on the subject. I think the Bishop's reasoning was spot on, especially when he said the following: “John Henry Newman said that the conscience is the aboriginal vicar of Christ in the soul. It’s a very interesting characterization, that it is, in fact, the voice of Christ—if He’s the logos made flesh, He’s the divine mind or reason made flesh—that when I follow my conscience, I’m following Him, whether I know it explicitly or not,”

We have been over this before and to you the only person saved is the Evangelical Christian who interprets the Scriptures in a particular way in accordance with your particular doctrines. Let us all seek to emulate the Lord with love in all things and allow Him to make the final decision concerning salvation at the appropriate time.

Again my friend please answer the question with a yes or no - your personal opinion please. Are all Jews who ever lived condemned to hell?

ALL who reject Jesus as their Messiah are!

 

[Yeshua1]

I couldn't disagree more. I not only believe in the name of Jesus Christ, but I believe in how the Scriptures say we should worship Him by participating in the Holy Mass and communing with Him through the Holy Eucharist. We simply see things regarding the Christian faith differently - I take the orthodox view and you do not.

You might not pay him any heed, but John Henry Neuman was one of the foremost theologians ever in the history of orthodox Christianity. His conversion from Anglicanism to the Catholic Church was a momentous occasion in the history of the Church. Couple him with the Catholic Church and I find it is more profitable to listen to them regarding things than to adhere to your view on the subject.

The true Orthodox faith would be in the scriptures, and as expressed in the Confessions of faith such as the 1689 Confession!

 

[Adonia]

he "orthodox" view is the one taken by Apostles as they gave it to us in the New Testament.

Oh yes, the Apostles did indeed have an orthodox view of things which they passed down to us through the process of ordination from Bishop to Bishop as the Christian Church here on earth grew. What you believe and what your sect teaches is not orthodox in any sense of the word.

You clearly and most patently do NOT believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ, if you truly believed that Jesus Christ died for your sins, you would not be trusting in the sacramental system of the Catholic Church.

Of course I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and that is exactly what the Catholic Church teaches. We receive forgiveness for our sins through His death and resurrection, so much so that our worship service, the Holy Mass, holds that death and resurrection remembrance as the focal point of our worship as the Scriptures tell us it should. You on the other hand give it little heed, as your focal point of worship is the pulpit, ours is the altar.

You cannot believe in both. Biblical faith is a trust in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ for your justification. You cannot trust in both Jesus Christ and in the Roman Catholics system of works salvation.

You have been misinformed. We have received the free gift of salvation through the sacrifice of Christ (see my previous post of our respective ways of worship) and we are justified to God through that act. Good works however (which you seem to ignore) remain a part of the Christian life.

Remember the Scriptures say we will be judged on our actions here on earth. You guys believe in the few things you think are relevant, we believe that everything the Scriptures tells us is relevant to our walk with the Lord.

The fact that you put your trust in the Catholic system shows that you are not really trusting in Christ, therefore no you are not believing in the name of the son of God.

I put my trust in Jesus Christ AND His Church, the one he left us here on earth. These sacraments you are so uptight about are just names for all the holy things we do in our lives, you know things like marriage, ordination, baptism, the healing of the sick etc. The Scriptures tell us this is how we are to lead our lives, so don't you believe those things are holy and from God?

All people like you have is a different interpretation of the Scriptures - that's it. You claim to follow the Scriptures but by the way you interpret them you reject many of the basic things they tell us.

Now, I have told you what I believe and who my Savior is, so if you in the future say anything contrary to that and continue on with the garbage you have been spouting about me about what I do or do not believe you will be bearing false witness against me which is (and I am sure you know) a serious violation of one of the commandments of God.