Border Wall with Mexico

[Benjamin]

With all due respect Bill, I see this wall business as delusion.

I'm hoping to get past some of the rhetoric and side issues (This thread is not about whether Obama is a Muslim sympathizer or not.) and see if people are willing to cut to the chase about what they see happening with the wall.

Please do make your predictions and would be nice if you to add on this question.

What percentage of illegals that have been freely crossing into our country will be stopped when the wall is completed and other measures are in place?

 

[Benjamin]

Radio Talk show host Michael Savage has an ideal he wants to send to Trump

Put a tax on all Western union money sent to Mexico - that would easily pay for the wall.

Simply passing a law that ANY "illegal" moneys by ANY MEANS sent to Mexico will be taxed (or even complete withheld until verification can be made, perhaps confiscated if found illegal) and actually ENFORCING THE LAW.

Simply requiring ID for anyone sending money to Mexico will define whether or not it is legally sent.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Evidently you did NOT understand the difference -
The East Germans - shot to kill.
The Americans will NOT do that.

Oh cont-rare my friend, I do know the difference. And that's the point. I can climb over a wall, dig a tunnel under it & get to the other side with some effort.........but now a mine field parameter(maybe some razor-wire) & machine gun turrets are an effective deterrent that we should be considering if we are super serious in prohibiting illegal entry into the country.....so why isn't Trump putting that on the table?

And why isn't Trump telling Fox to go chase himself.......he could do it in a Tweet.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I'm hoping to get past some of the rhetoric and side issues (This thread is not about whether Obama is a Muslim sympathizer or not.) and see if people are willing to cut to the chase about what they see happening with the wall.

Please do make your predictions and would be nice if you to add on this question.

What percentage of illegals that have been freely crossing into our country will be stopped when the wall is completed and other measures are in place?

But, but we would have almost total effectiveness( I'd say 100%) with a "No Mans mine field equipped with gun turrets?" So why not expand the conversation toward that initiative?

 

[Benjamin]

Oh cont-rare my friend, I do know the difference. And that's the point. I can climb over a wall, dig a tunnel under it & get to the other side with some effort....

Climbing over a 35' wall (my prediction) can be very difficult, especially if one is trying to bring their family.

People seem to be under the impression that only Mexicans can dig tunnels but if there weren't measures to deal with digging tunnels the Palestinians would not have been deterred in Israel like they have been.

And then there is other ("civil") measures which can be developed to deal with "some effort" of yours/theirs.

.....but now a mine field parameter(maybe some razor-wire) & machine gun turrets are an effective deterrent that we should be considering if we are super serious in prohibiting illegal entry into the country.....so why isn't Trump putting that on the table?

Strawman much.

But, but we would have almost total effectiveness( I'd say 100%) with a "No Mans mine field equipped with gun turrets?" So why not expand the conversation toward that initiative?

No one is suggesting such barbarian actions. Nor is it (your slippery slope) necessary to achieve the effects we need.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Climbing over a 35' wall (my prediction) can be very difficult, especially if one is trying to bring their family.

People seem to be under the impression that only Mexicans can dig tunnels but if there weren't measures to deal with digging tunnels the Palestinians would not have been deterred in Israel like they have been.

And then there is other measures which can be developed to deal with "some effort" of yours/theirs.



Strawman much.

I would like to add Pitbulls to the equation......they are a great deterrent & cost allot less than a 35 foot wall that I can tunnel under.


No one is suggesting such barbarian actions. Nor is it necessary to achieve to effect we need.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Climbing over a 35' wall (my prediction) can be very difficult, especially if one is trying to bring their family.

BTW Ben, the Israeli's can shoot (to kill) on sight. That's a great deterrent.
People seem to be under the impression that only Mexicans can dig tunnels but if there weren't measures to deal with digging tunnels the Palestinians would not have been deterred in Israel like they have been.

And then there is other measures which can be developed to deal with "some effort" of yours/theirs.



Strawman much.



No one is suggesting such barbarian actions. Nor is it (your slippery slope) necessary to achieve the effects we need.

 

[Benjamin]

BTW Ben, the Israeli's can shoot (to kill) on sight. That's a great deterrent.

If they were digging tunnels so they could come over and bomb and kill us I would not opposed to a more "determined" response. Again, that is not case.

Admittedly, the gangsters and drugs are a vital threat but again we are not barbarians that would start killing everyone who tried and there are others ways to ensure the effectiveness of our wall. It is different situation than Israel - at least for now...

 

[exscentric]

"If that wall could talk,
would it say, "Don't build me"?"

No, it would say I have as much right as any wall to exist, build me. That is if a wall that does not exist could think/talk

 

[StefanM]

"If that wall could talk,
would it say, "Don't build me"?"

No, it would say I have as much right as any wall to exist, build me. That is if a wall that does not exist could think/talk

I just want to make sure that NO federal funds are going to any organization that practices stopping wall construction.

 

[steaver]

Will Mexico pay for the wall? How?

You have to look at the big picture. Trump holds all the cards. Mexico will have no choice but to negotiate a new deal. If Trump reduces the trade deficit from 60 billion to even 30 billion, Mexico would have paid for the wall in less than one year no matter how much the Mexico president stomps his feet and crys about it. It's really that simple....

 

[TCassidy]

Does Mexico think the wall will benefit them?

Yes. It may serve to slow the illegal immigration of Guatemalans illegally entering Mexico and traveling north to illegally enter the US. If they know entering the US illegally will be much harder.

Will the wall benefit the United States?

Yes. It will help deter terrorists from entering the US and will deter illegals coming and being a burden on our social systems.

How high do you expect the wall will be?

The present 700 miles varies from 10 feet in low traffic areas to 25 feet in high traffic areas.

What materials do you think it will it built out of?

Steel and concrete.

How far underground will/should the footing/solid barrier be?

Presently about 5 feet.

When will actual construction begin?

1993. The additions mandated by The Secure Fence Act of 2006 started in 2007.

Where will the construction begin?

It began in 1993 around the established border crossings. The 2006 law expanded that to include the gaps between the border crossings.

What measures will/should accompany the wall to increase its effectiveness?

Machine guns?

Will Mexico pay for the wall? How?

Yes. Via reduced foreign aid payments.

What is the biggest obstacle to overcome? How will/should it be dealt with?

The protected wetlands along the Rio Bravo. Lease land from Mexico to build the fence on the Mexican side.

Is Mexico going to pitch a fit and will it this escalate?

Who cares?

Will Mexico’s economy suffer?

Probably not. If the illegals from Guatemala can be deterred it may help their economy.

Will Mexico eventually change their tune and receive more help from us under certain new conditions?

Could be.

 

[TCassidy]

My recommendation for the border wall. (With my apologies to the good Squire.)

 

[Benjamin]

Yes. It may serve to slow the illegal immigration of Guatemalans illegally entering Mexico and traveling north to illegally enter the US. If they know entering the US illegally will be much harder.

Yeah, but if they weigh that against what they are losing it may not seem so beneficial.

The present 700 miles varies from 10 feet in low traffic areas to 25 feet in high traffic areas.

First of all, that ain’t a wall, it is a fence. It may be a deterrence but someone like me would simply go to the “low traffic area” and with an 18” step just jump up and pull myself over, in my younger days wouldn’t even need the step.

Presently about 5 feet.

Again not good enough, give me a $10 shovel and a couple gallons of water and I’d dig under that in the middle of summer in a day.

1993. The additions mandated by The Secure Fence Act of 2006 started in 2007.

Again I’m thinking more in line about a real wall, not a fence. Trump’s going to have to scrap that mess.

It began in 1993 around the established border crossings. The 2006 law expanded that to include the gaps between the border crossings.

I’m getting the feeling if I asked you for shoes for Christmas and placed a picture of some Ostrich Cowboy Boots (…size 9 ½ ) in front of you I might want to consider myself lucky to get a pair of one-size-fits-all Flip-flops. Nah, I don’t believe you’re thinking bigly enough, Trump’s taste and pride in building will most likely mandate a serious remodel from a fence to a “wall”.

Machine guns?

Might be considered a wee bit extreme...

The protected wetlands along the Rio Bravo. Lease land from Mexico to build the fence on the Mexican side.

Agree, although I think the regulations in large part will be abolished. I don’t like ongoing bills for things I don’t own so I don’t like leases, I expect Trump feels the same, but working something out where putting the wall right on the line isn’t practical should be an option.

 

[TCassidy]

First of all, that ain’t a wall, it is a fence.

I will not play semantics with you. A solid structure from top to bottom is what I am talking about.

It may be a deterrence but someone like me would simply go to the “low traffic area” and with an 18” step just jump up and pull myself over, in my younger days wouldn’t even need the step.

You've never spent much time in the Sonoran Desert have you?

Again not good enough, give me a $10 shovel and a couple gallons of water and I’d dig under that in the middle of summer in a day.

Again, the hard pan in the Sonoran Desert is not something you can dig into without power equipment.

Again I’m thinking more in line about a real wall, not a fence.

Again, I won't play semantic games with you.

Trump’s going to have to scrap that mess.

Nonsense. Where it has been completed it has proven to be very effective.

Might be considered a wee bit extreme...

That's why I suggested it, in light of your exchange with EWF.

Agree, although I think the regulations in large part will be abolished.

I doubt it. The wet lands also house several endangered species, and several bird sanctuaries.

 

[Benjamin]

I will not play semantics with you. A solid structure from top to bottom is what I am talking about.

Okay, but the point is your not thinking bigly enough.

You've never spent much time in the Sonoran Desert have you?

Actually I live in it.

Again, the hard pan in the Sonoran Desert is not something you can dig into without power equipment.

I have dug many 5' holes on my property, in the summer, granted I might want to bring a pickaxe for the caliche although bet I could find spot without it. In fact, I can name many chores I've done in the heat which compare...

(Disclaimer: In my "experience" of being a bit older and wiser I'm more likely today to rent the equipment.)

Again, I won't play semantic games with you.

I'll just settle this with my prediction that your fence will be rebuilt with a wall. How about that?

Nonsense. Where it has been completed it has proven to be very effective.

Who cares. Dream big. I think we're looking a higher standard. I believe it will be rebuilt.

That's why I suggested it, in light of your exchange with EWF.

I'm expecting some technology to come with the fenc...er wall.

I doubt it. The wet lands also house several endangered species, and several bird sanctuaries.

Noted, but still think much of the regulations will be abolished, solutions found. The bird can fly over the dern fence...

 

[steaver]

Again not good enough, give me a $10 shovel and a couple gallons of water and I’d dig under that in the middle of summer in a day.

Are you forgetting the wall is being watched also? Do you think you can dig under by the time they see you and get to you?

 

[Crabtownboy]

Are you forgetting the wall is being watched also? Do you think you can dig under by the time they see you and get to you?

The walls/fences around the Warsaw Pack countries and the Berlin Wall had guard posts, all within sight of the other plus fields of land mines along them and they did not keep refugees from leaving or black marketeers from getting in.

 

[steaver]

The walls/fences around the Warsaw Pack countries and the Berlin Wall had guard posts, all within sight of the other plus fields of land mines along them and they did not keep refugees from leaving or black marketeers from getting in.

By the millions per year?

 

[InTheLight]

Again not good enough, give me a $10 shovel and a couple gallons of water and I’d dig under that in the middle of summer in a day.

I CAN TOO DIG HOLES!

<stamps feet>



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