Born of God

[mark1]

I have never reported anyone to anybody ever. Moderators do just that, they moderate these discussions. If BBob got himself banned it was not because of anything i said, but what he said.

My conscience is clear. I gave you a warning as a brother in Christ nothing more, I am not in any authoritive position. Now your last post continues to make false accusations, i pray you reconsider the way you tweek what others say. You see with BBob it turned into a personal vendetta on his part because he could not defend his views with scripture. It happens alot on these boards to some degree, but BBob took it to another level for some reason. BBob's banning was entirely of his own making. Most people heed the warnings and let it go, BBob would not let it go.

Personally, i have never been warned by a moderator. I have had other brothers question my post and when i said something personal or wrong I would appologize, nobody is perfect. I welcome your criticism if I get personal or misrepresent what you say, as well as the criticism of the moderators.

I watched and so did others and saw you even say that Bro Bob was "self-righteous" after he was banned. I saw Bro Bob tell you over and over he was not questioning your salvation, and things settled down, then you brought it up again and Bro Bob called your hand on it.

I saw, where it was you that did not have the scripture to back up your claims, such as now.

You can say what you want, but the truth is the truth.

Be as it may, I see no Christian reason to carry on this discussion.

 

[mark1]

Ag, Mark1, it is fruitless -- spirtually unprofitable -- to argue with you.

Steaver, keep courage, brother!

GE:
You believe as I remember, it was all settled before the foundation of the world and man has no part in it at all. So why would you even be in this discussion. I might be wrong thinking that is what you believe, but don't think so.

No, it is unfruitful to argue with me when you say one thing and then deny it and say another.

It matters not if they actually performed an act of sin or not. Sin entered ALL through Adam's sin which is passed on through the blood. Infants have blood, even from conception.
__________________
steaver

Now if that doesn't say that embryos have sin, I am mistaken. How anyone can say that is not saying embryos have sin, I don't know.

You are not responsible for any act of sin committed by any ancester. You are, however, concieved in sin through the sinful blood of mankind...

Rom 5:12; "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"

If you had no sinful blood brother, you would not die. Infants die.
__________________
steaver

sin is not in the blood, or it would all be removed when the funeral director removed all your blood. Also, if sin passed through the blood, I would of received my father's sins.

Now Steaver changed it from the first post in the second post, but instead of acknowledging it, he act like he did not say it.

Natural death is an "appointment" from God, because of Adam's disobeidance, but it is not passed down through "blood". God concluded all under sin.

Could you give me scripture where sin is in the blood???

 

[steaver]

I watched and so did others and saw you even say that Bro Bob was "self-righteous" after he was banned. I saw Bro Bob tell you over and over he was not questioning your salvation, and things settled down, then you brought it up again and Bro Bob called your hand on it.

I saw, where it was you that did not have the scripture to back up your claims, such as now.

You can say what you want, but the truth is the truth.

Be as it may, I see no Christian reason to carry on this discussion.

I have never received any warnings from a moderator ever since I joined this board and I have posted over three thousand times.

BBob received many warnings and then was banned. Yet you say it is I who has wronged BBob on this board.

What else can be said?

 

[steaver]

Natural death is an "appointment" from God, because of Adam's disobeidance, but it is not passed down through "blood". God concluded all under sin.

Could you give me scripture where sin is in the blood???

A soul has a spirit and a body. How then is it passed? In the air?

Ro 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

 

[mark1]

A soul has a spirit and a body. How then is it passed? In the air?

Ro 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Blood is made in the stem cells of your Bone marrow and then is released into your blood stream systematically.The rbc then goes through a devolpment cycle until it is a full RBC.It usually last 90 days in the blood stream.
Source(s):

School
If you are talking about the spirit, it comes from God according to scripture. The body comes from conception. God said to multiply. You soul does not come from your father and mother. God said "all souls are mine".

I always believed God has a hand in it.
I give you breath and you live, I take it and you die.

Just give scripture where sin passes down through the blood.

Also, I was watching when everything happened, I do not have to ask anyone. A man of God defended the scripture is all he did and was accused daily of lying and questioning someone's salvation, which is a lie in itself. He was falsely accused and condemned, from the understanding I got, for observing.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

I do see your point, Mark; I'm sorry, but the impression I got from that heated conversation, led me to wrong conclusions.

I would not say sin is transferred through 'blood'. Maybe Steaver uses the word metaphorically --- for what though? "I was conceived in sin", said David somewhere. 'Blood' represents the whole human being, just like the embrio already is the whole human being in embrio. I don't however, believe an embrio (in the sight of God if I may so speak) born 'still' as we say, will be reckoned a responsible human being, nor even the live baby, if having died a baby.

I have no answer but that that baby who died if he might have grown up, would NATURALLY have BEEN a sinner - and would not have BECOME a sinner only later on in life. One can say all this philosophying with Steaver's metaphor, by reason of 'blood'.

I stand with the 'Reformed' viewpoint, that if the parents are believers, the infant is saved; if unbelievers, the infant has not been saved. Can I explain it? I cannot!

 

[steaver]

Just give scripture where sin passes down through the blood.

I gave the scripture where God has said that sin is passed on to ALL because of Adam's sin. (Ro 5:12)

Why did Jesus, the Sacrifice for sin, have to be born of a virgin? Because Jesus had to be pure from sin which would be passed on through the father from Adam. God held Adam responsible and it is by Adam God says that sin entered into the world.

It took the shedding of blood that was free and pure from sin to satisfy God's demand of death to ALL through Adam.

Now I see the death from sin passed on through the blood, for the life is in the blood and sin kills that blood (not immediatly, but slowly, all will die because of Adam's sin allowing sin to enter in) .

Lev 17:11; For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

You did not give your answer. God says it is passed on from Adam (Ro 5:12) My answer is through the blood, what is your answer? How is it passed on?

Also, I was watching when everything happened, I do not have to ask anyone. A man of God defended the scripture is all he did ....

I don't believe he got in trouble for defending his view of scripture. This is what we all do here. He must have violated the rules somehow. I do not know what his conversations were about between him and the Administration as to his behavior, but I do know that he was quite arogant at times and misrepresented others post many times without repentence when asked to stop.

 

[mark1]

I gave the scripture where God has said that sin is passed on to ALL because of Adam's sin. (Ro 5:12)

Why did Jesus, the Sacrifice for sin, have to be born of a virgin? Because Jesus had to be pure from sin which would be passed on through the father from Adam. God held Adam responsible and it is by Adam God says that sin entered into the world.

It took the shedding of blood that was free and pure from sin to satisfy God's demand of death to ALL through Adam.

Now I see the death from sin passed on through the blood, for the life is in the blood and sin kills that blood (not immediatly, but slowly, all will die because of Adam's sin allowing sin to enter in) .

Lev 17:11; For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.

You did not give your answer. God says it is passed on from Adam (Ro 5:12) My answer is through the blood, what is your answer? How is it passed on?


I don't believe he got in trouble for defending his view of scripture. This is what we all do here. He must have violated the rules somehow. I do not know what his conversations were about between him and the Administration as to his behavior, but I do know that he was quite arogant at times and misrepresented others post many times without repentence when asked to stop.

Rom 11:32
For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33
O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable [are] his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34
For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

According to science there is no blood in an embryo at first, it is formed in the embryo.

He was banned because he would not say that "you" were saved at the age of 7 or 10. He would say, that he did not question your salvation, but could not say when. No man can say when, but he was banned because he would not say "when".
I can't say when you or anyone else on here was saved. I question no one's salvation, but as far as saying when, I cannot. That is between you and God.
Because of this he was told he was questioning your salvation, of which he said was not the truth.
That was why he was banned totally, nothing more, nothing less.

You kept insisting that he was questioning your salvation, when he told you over and over and over in posts, that he did not question that you were saved. You would not accept that, so the moderator would not either.

 

[mark1]

I do see your point, Mark; I'm sorry, but the impression I got from that heated conversation, led me to wrong conclusions.

I would not say sin is transferred through 'blood'. Maybe Steaver uses the word metaphorically --- for what though? "I was conceived in sin", said David somewhere. 'Blood' represents the whole human being, just like the embrio already is the whole human being in embrio. I don't however, believe an embrio (in the sight of God if I may so speak) born 'still' as we say, will be reckoned a responsible human being, nor even the live baby, if having died a baby.

I have no answer but that that baby who died if he might have grown up, would NATURALLY have BEEN a sinner - and would not have BECOME a sinner only later on in life. One can say all this philosophying with Steaver's metaphor, by reason of 'blood'.

I stand with the 'Reformed' viewpoint, that if the parents are believers, the infant is saved; if unbelievers, the infant has not been saved. Can I explain it? I cannot!

Thank you for the apology and I too apoligize for not answering you in a more kinder way. I get too carried away sometimes. Forgive me.

 

[steaver]

You kept insisting that he was questioning your salvation, when he told you over and over and over in posts, that he did not question that you were saved. You would not accept that, so the moderator would not either.

I never once said BBob was questioning my salvation. Are you sure you really was watching the conversation? I only question a person's views and usually when they run out of answers brcause the view is faulty they get angry and begin casting insults or misrepresentations. Again, I have no idea what was said between the Adminstration and BBob. Nobody sent me a PM with any warnings, it appears that you are the only one here who thinks I said anything wrong and that is probably because you hold to the same error as BBob with the view of being "kept by the power of God" from transgressing the law.

According to science there is no blood in an embryo at first, it is formed in the embryo.

Can you site a source please.

You did not give your answer. God says it is passed on from Adam (Ro 5:12) My answer is through the blood, what is your answer? How is it passed on?

You posted some scripture about unbelief. Is this your answer, sin is passed on through unbelief? I believe unbelief is a sin in itself, no?

 

[mark1]

I never once said BBob was questioning my salvation. Are you sure you really was watching the conversation? I only question a person's views and usually when they run out of answers brcause the view is faulty they get angry and begin casting insults or misrepresentations. Again, I have no idea what was said between the Adminstration and BBob. Nobody sent me a PM with any warnings, it appears that you are the only one here who thinks I said anything wrong and that is probably because you hold to the same error as BBob with the view of being "kept by the power of God" from transgressing the law.



Can you site a source please.

You did not give your answer. God says it is passed on from Adam (Ro 5:12) My answer is through the blood, what is your answer? How is it passed on?

You posted some scripture about unbelief. Is this your answer, sin is passed on through unbelief? I believe unbelief is a sin in itself, no?

I will stay with sin is transgression of the Law. You can put it in the blood if you want, but if sin passes through the blood, then we sure have a lot of sin of others on our backs.

You talk about the soul and body passing also from your ancestor. You leave God completely out of the equasion.

Isa 44:2Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

I am not a scientist, but you can read for yourself that it is several days after conception, that the embryo enters the womb.

We are the ones who sin and we carry no one else's sin. We will stand before God, for our own sins.

Show me one scripture where "sin" passes down through your father and mother's blood?

You know others believe as I do, for they have told you. It does not matter to me, the wrong is not on my hands.

You say you know nothing now, but do you deny that you said that "Bro Bob's own self-righteousness is what got him banned"?

 

[steaver]

I will stay with sin is transgression of the Law. You can put it in the blood if you want, but if sin passes through the blood, then we sure have a lot of sin of others on our backs.

You have not given an answer as to how the curse of sin and death is passed down from Adam.

Ro 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

I am not a scientist, but you can read for yourself that it is several days after conception, that the embryo enters the womb.

I believe what you are refering to is that the embryo forms it's own blood type after so many days. It most certainly needs the mother's blood else it would die. Not sure, because I am no scientist either, but you made the claim so you should know the facts of it.

Show me one scripture where "sin" passes down through your father and mother's blood?

I gave you my reasons for why I believe as I do. The word of God is clear that sin and death is passed down from Adam. You will have to come up with an alternative from my view yet still make the connection between mankind's sin and death and Adam's sin and death just as God does. How is it passed down Mark? The Word says it is passed.

You say you know nothing now, but do you deny that you said that "Bro Bob's own self-righteousness is what got him banned"?

I do not. It is my opinion because even though I seen him publicly warned over and over about his misrepresentations of others he would not repent. I don't know why he was OFFICIALLY banned. Do you??

 

[mark1]

You have not given an answer as to how the curse of sin and death is passed down from Adam.

Ro 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:



I believe what you are refering to is that the embryo forms it's own blood type after so many days. It most certainly needs the mother's blood else it would die. Not sure, because I am no scientist either, but you made the claim so you should know the facts of it.



I gave you my reasons for why I believe as I do. The word of God is clear that sin and death is passed down from Adam. You will have to come up with an alternative from my view yet still make the connection between mankind's sin and death and Adam's sin and death just as God does. How is it passed down Mark? The Word says it is passed.



I do not. It is my opinion because even though I seen him publicly warned over and over about his misrepresentations of others he would not repent. I don't know why he was OFFICIALLY banned. Do you??

who formed you, show me a scripture where sin "passed". I find where death passed, but Adam did not have the power to pass it down. It took God to appoint death unto all, because Adam's sin. It did not have to pass through blood, because it passed through God's appointment.


He was publicly warned over and over about "you", and he told you over and over he was not questioning your salvation. Why did you not accept what he told you. If you would of accepted the word of a brother, it would of been over and he would not of been banned. He was pressured to say, "he knew you were saved at seven". That was a impossibility for him to know that, so he would not say, what would of been a lie to him, for he could not say he knew when anyone was saved, except himself.

 

[steaver]

who formed you, show me a scripture where sin "passed". I find where death passed, but Adam did not have the power to pass it down.

Ro 5:12; Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

The wages of sin is death. How is it babies die having not ever committing an act of sin of their own?

 

[steaver]

He was publicly warned over and over about "you", and he told you over and over he was not questioning your salvation. Why did you not accept what he told you. If you would of accepted the word of a brother, it would of been over and he would not of been banned. He was pressured to say, "he knew you were saved at seven". That was a impossibility for him to know that, so he would not say, what would of been a lie to him, for he could not say he knew when anyone was saved, except himself

BBob dug his own hole because he could not answer tough questions about his theology. I could care less if someone tells me I am not saved or not. I know whom I have believed in.

He gave an answer as to how one knows they are saved or not and I agreed. Ro 8:16; The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

Since age ten I have had this witness within me. BBob then posted a scripture in response to my witness...1Jo 4:1; Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

I believe this might have been what drove the last nail in his fate.

You see, I was born of God at age ten and have had the Holy Spirit indwellment ever since then. But I gave into temptation and committed adultery among other transgressions of God's laws at age 23. I have first hand personal knowledge that his and your theology on this matter of "kept by the power of God" is in error. I would guess that there is probably only a minute percentage of Christians who believe as you do on this. Probably less than 1%. This would place the theology in the heresy category along with ME in my opinion.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

There is no true 'saint' who will not bear witness with you, Steaver!

Here is what is meant by "kept by the power of God": "Your life is hid WITH CHRIST IN GOD"; "No one shall take them from my hand" "Because they are Yours": DESPITE we / they / I / he/she yet, sin. God is merciful; and so do we pray: O God be merciful unto ME, SINNER!

But, Steaver, you no longer commit adultary -- you are, "kept by the power of God".

 

[steaver]

Here is what is meant by "kept by the power of God": "Your life is hid WITH CHRIST IN GOD"; "No one shall take them from my hand" "Because they are Yours": DESPITE we / they / I / he/she yet, sin. God is merciful; and so do we pray: O God be merciful unto ME, SINNER!

But, Steaver, you no longer commit adultary -- you are, "kept by the power of God".

I agree with the first part, not sure what you mean by the "but" part. I know my weaknesses and would not ever say never again. However, I have grown stronger in the Lord since my transgression and have been able to resist this particular transgression in deed. Although my thoughts on occassion have failed my Lord.

 

[mark1]

I agree with the first part, not sure what you mean by the "but" part. I know my weaknesses and would not ever say never again. However, I have grown stronger in the Lord since my transgression and have been able to resist this particular transgression in deed. Although my thoughts on occassion have failed my Lord.

If you or GE think that Adam had the "power" to pass sin and death upon all mankind, you both need to do some praying and studing. Just because of the following scripture, does not mean that Adam had the power to do it, but because he did sin, God "passed" death upon all mankind. As far as sin, it is the children who sin, when they come to know God and glorify Him not as God.

1Cr 15:21
For since by man [came] death, by man [came] also the resurrection of the dead.

Now all that was "passed" came from God, not Adam. It happened because Adam sinned, but Adam had no power over mankind, God does. jeepers!!!

Deu 32:18
Of the Rock [that] begat thee thou art unmindful, and hast forgotten God that formed thee.

Now, where did death come from:

Hbr 9:27
And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Who did the appointing, God did, Adam did not have that kind of power.

Also, sin does not pass through the blood, and you still have shown no scripture that says so.

 

[mark1]

There is no true 'saint' who will not bear witness with you, Steaver!

Here is what is meant by "kept by the power of God": "Your life is hid WITH CHRIST IN GOD"; "No one shall take them from my hand" "Because they are Yours": DESPITE we / they / I / he/she yet, sin. God is merciful; and so do we pray: O God be merciful unto ME, SINNER!

But, Steaver, you no longer commit adultary -- you are, "kept by the power of God".

I do not think you understand what you read GE? Of course we are still sinners, but we do not commit adultery.

You don't seem to know it, but you praise Steaver, while all the time "agreeing with what I have posted", that we no longer commit adultery.

Steaver says he can still commit adultery.:thumbs:

Steaver says sin "passes" through the blood.

I say that sin "does not pass" through the blood.

If I read your post right, you also say that sin, does not "pass through the blood".

If you do not believe that sin passes through the blood, then why you are paising Steaver, while agreeing with me.

I think you might have your hat on backwards!!!!!

Steaver believes, if I understand him, that a Christian can commit "adultery" for "TEN" years, and still be a Christian.

Is that what you believe GE: ?????

 

[DHK]

I will stay with sin is transgression of the Law. You can put it in the blood if you want, but if sin passes through the blood, then we sure have a lot of sin of others on our backs.

Sin as a transgression of the law is only one definition as given in 1John 3:4
"Missing the mark" is another definition as described in Romans 3:23--We miss the mark of God's glory and his holiness when we sin. We fall short of it.

However we sin because we have a sin nature also--an iherited nature that has been passed down from Adam--an Adamic nature.
Romans 5:12,19

Have you ever considered the story of Coniah in Jer.22?
Jeremiah 22:28-30 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of the LORD.
30 Thus saith the LORD, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.

What was one of the primary reasons for the virgin birth? Both Mary and Joseph were of the line of Judah, as their respective geneologies show. Mary's geneology is given in Luke, and Joseph's in Matthew. Jesus had to be virgin born, because if he wasn't he would have inherited not only a sin nature, but as the Lord says he would have descended from a line of David that would have been cursed.

Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.
--Joseph was a direct descendent from this line.
The virgin birth was the only answer.

The virgin birth was the only answer for another reason; it was the only way that Christ could avoid a sin nature. The sin nature is inherited. Once the egg is impregnated with the sperm that is where life begins. And that is where the sin nature begins--as soon as that person has a living soul--right then and there. It is "inherited." It is passed down through the man. It was the man that was cursed, and through the man the sin would be passed down from generation to generation. It is called the "seed' of the man.

I am not a scientist, but you can read for yourself that it is several days after conception, that the embryo enters the womb.

This has nothing to do with it. When does life begin? You sound like you are trying to make an argument for abortion.

We are the ones who sin and we carry no one else's sin. We will stand before God, for our own sins.

You influence others around you. You especially influence your children. You will stand before God on how you raised your children, what kind of life you gave them--was it a Godly upbringing? They were brought into this world with a sin nature passed on by you. Were you able to lead them to the Lord so that they might be born into God's family? That is your responsiblity as a parent. Yes, you will stand before God on the account of others--especially your children.

Show me one scripture where "sin" passes down through your father and mother's blood?

And if I do, will you believe?

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

You say you know nothing now, but do you deny that you said that "Bro Bob's own self-righteousness is what got him banned"?

Kindly leave BroBob out of this discussion. He has nothing to do with it. Neither was he banned because of a similar discussion. He was banned because it is three strikes and you are out.
He had been warned.
He had been suspended.
He was been banned.
And all for the same reasons. That is the end of that discussion. Leave it there (RE: BroBob, that is).