Breakup in the ABCUSA

[Debby in Philly]

This is just why our church decided to leave two years ago. A church the Western Region did not accept was brought into our association all the way here on the East coast. While it caused a lot of pain, I'm glad to see we're not alone.

ABC Article

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

This is a good move on the Conservative Churches involved to separate from the evil of the current ABCUSA. I only pray that they will now become something that is God honoring in the future and allow the heretics to go on. I believe they are headed in the right direction.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[bapmom]

suddenly "independent" is looking better and better

 

[SAMPLEWOW]

Please explain bapmom!

I don't understand.

 

[bapmom]

Just meant not having any official affiliation between local churches.....if or when a separation becomes necessary it causes great pain, consternation, and can even be the cause of a church split.

Im sorry to see our brethren in the ABCUSA being put through such difficulties.

 

[just-want-peace]

Homosexuality "shouldn't be a defining issue," Campolo says.

Yeah, right! Campolo really needs to get his act together. It seems that Campolo has the idea that just because God DOES love the sinner, that HE (God) is just going to give a pat on the head like to a good bird dog and discount the seriousness of the sin AND the sinner's attitude.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompense of their error which was meet.

God didn't REALLY mean what He said here; you've got to read between the lines!

"It serves as a threatening reminder to other mainline denominations of what can happen to them. Perhaps it will caution Methodists and Lutherans and Presbyterians."

I have a son-in-law who left the Methodist ministry and this issue was one of the catalysts.

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

I believe it's all in the way this issue is handled. Does Jesus want sinners in His Church? Of course. He spent a lot of His time on earth with sinners. What's the difference between the woman found in prostitution that He saved from stoning and these homosexuals?

Of course, we don't want anyone in church who isn't there to change. That's where I disagree with affirming a homosexual life style. I also don't agree with affirming a lifestyle of two heterosexuals living in sin together nor do I support affirming adultry.

But sexual sins are not the only sins. Being miserly and not helping the poor, hating other people because of their race, rejecting people because of their politics, beating your wife or children, etc.

just-want-peace
Did your son-in-law change to bec0ome a minister in another denomination or leave the ministry?

 

[just-want-peace]

He became independent, but later was ordained as an SBC pastor. At the moment, he's out of the ministry waiting for God to lead him, but I think the ultimate goal is to become a seminary prof.

As he pastored (some 7 years now) he realized that his gifts were less & less in the pastoral field, but in the preaching/teaching field, which he is planning to pursue; subject to the Spirit's leading of course.

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
This is a good move on the Conservative Churches involved to separate from the evil of the current ABCUSA. I only pray that they will now become something that is God honoring in the future and allow the heretics to go on. I believe they are headed in the right direction.

Joseph Botwinick

I am in an conservative ABC church. Of course we don't agree with affirming Homosexuality, as well as any sexual immorality, but we have decided to stay and fight. If all the conservative churches leave the ABC-USA, that would leave the affirming churches in control. WE are in a spiritual battle, and as soldiers of the Lord, we do not go AWOL.
Sure we may loose the battle, but in the end the War has already been won.
Pulling out does nothing but strenghten the enemy's camp.
Besides, there are a lot of ramifications one much consider and that takes time.
We will not run from the fight.
We will stand on the Word of God.
That's my point of view.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I disagree with you. But, you do whatever you want. I would not be associated with that kind of evil.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[BruceB]

Amen, preach it brother StraightAndNarrow!

 

[StefanM]

I'm with Joseph.

 

[rsr]

Tim: Has your church had contact with West Virginia Baptists for Biblical Truth, which is pushing for the vote at the annual meeting?

What are the chances the convention would vote to break with the ABC-USA? If it did, would your church go along?

 

[El_Guero]

Joseph

I am with you!

 

[Salty]

Originally posted by rsr:
Tim: Has your church had contact with West Virginia Baptists for Biblical Truth, which is pushing for the vote at the annual meeting?

What are the chances the convention would vote to break with the ABC-USA? If it did, would your church go along?

I found a website for the Am Baptist Evangelical, which has a story about this subject.

THE annual meeting of the WV Bap will be Oct 18 & 19. Lets pray that the Lord may bless and work in this important meeting.

Salty

BTW, the AM Bap Evg is a conservative association of Americian Baptists

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by rsr:
Tim: Has your church had contact with West Virginia Baptists for Biblical Truth, which is pushing for the vote at the annual meeting?

What are the chances the convention would vote to break with the ABC-USA? If it did, would your church go along?

First Question, yes we have been contacted,
And for the second question, Only God knows what will happen.

I believe every church in the WVBC is united in the stand that Homosexuality is incapatable with Christianity. (That is the ABC-USA's stand also)
The question is where do we go from here.
The WVBC along with the Kentucky/Indiana Convention have presented a resolution to the General board outlineing what we would like to see done. The second reading is in November, but our WVBC annual meeting is this month.

Personally, and this is my personal opinion, I'm waiting to see what happens in November before taking the next step of voting to separate from ABC-USA.

Again there are thousands of Godly ABC-USA churches and a handful of fringe churches that are causing this riff.
My point is why should we let a handful of churches run away thousands of Godly churches?
We should stand on biblical authority, and fight the good fight of faith.

That is what Jude says to do:
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort [you] that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

There is a time to separate, but I don't feel it is now. Now is the time to fight. Soldiers should not leave their posts in a war. And the more churches that bow out of the fight, the less influence we have on the ABC-USA.

There is too much good stuff in ABC-USA, to just throw our hands up and quit.

What about all the missionaries and peoples around the world that depend on us. How can God be pleased with a church that says, "we cut off our mission support(that goes to missionaries, that are not gay), because a church in California is affirming gays and may give to the same mission."?
What about the ABMen's disaster relief efforts, should we just cut them off too? They were some of the first on the scene the Monday when Katrina came. We were there way before the military. What about all the ABwomen's groups, and AByouth groups around the country that are serving the Lord faithfully. There is too many things good going on to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Again this is my personal opinion.

 

[bapmom]

What about all the missionaries and peoples around the world that depend on us. How can God be pleased with a church that says, "we cut off our mission support(that goes to missionaries, that are not gay), because a church in California is affirming gays and may give to the same mission."? [/QB]

Wait, I don't understand just this part. Why would your missionaries have to give up some of their support? Wouldn't you continue to support your own missionaries regardless of which association your church is affiliated wtih?

(IFB speaking and not understanding differences yet.)

 

[tinytim]

In the ABCUSA, we support the IM (international ministries) which is basically a mission board.
This allows the missionary to stay on the mission field longer because he knows he will be supported. If enough churches leave, this will affect IM's ability to support missionaries, so IM will have no choice but to recall them from the mission field. This cannot be a good thing.
Some churches also support independent missions as well.

Here is a link to IM: http://www.internationalministries.org/
I hope it can answer some questions.

 

[bapmom]

I see. I did not know that some churches support the mission board rather than supporting the missionaries as individuals.

When you say some support "independent missions" are you talking about individual missionaries?

 

[tinytim]

Yes, that's what I meant, I'm sleepy right now and not thinking clearly. Some churches support both IM and individual missionaries.