Yes. I am aware of that. Was Adam a Jew?
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But shouldn't we interpret the Bible spiritually instead of literally?
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Yes. I am aware of that. Was Adam a Jew?
nope, but the Church was not started until day of Pentecost!
What does the word, Church mean?
The called out ones, but that was not israel in the wilderness as some think!
An extraordinary concept advocated by the claimed "literalists" is the "Mediatorial Kingdom" discussed in this thread.
The Mediatorial Kingdom
TCassidy explains it thus:
What they need is the spiritual understanding that Jesus is spiritually present NOW with his redeemed people, & is our mediator King during his present MK.
Our glorious King Jesus had no difficulty in coming in judgment as he prophesied on Olivet:
The Mediatorial Kingdom
TCassidy explains it thus:
That teaching appears to be that the MK requires the physical presence of the king, so that in the present Gospel "dispensation" the MK is suspended, awaiting Jesus' physical reign on earth during the supposed future millennium.
What they need is the spiritual understanding that Jesus is spiritually present NOW with his redeemed people, & is our mediator King during his present MK.
Rev. 1:4 John, to the seven churches which are in Asia:
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth.
To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
Our glorious King Jesus had no difficulty in coming in judgment as he prophesied on Olivet:
7 Behold, He is coming with clouds, and every eye will see Him, even they who pierced Him. And all the tribes of the earth LAND will mourn because of Him. Even so, Amen.
National Israel served a purpose in God's redemptive history, but they are not the main show. God has always said that His elect would come from all nations. Abraham would bless all nations.
37 This is that Moses, which said unto the children of Israel, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear.
38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:
39 To whom our fathers would not obey, but thrust him from them, and in their hearts turned back again into Egypt,
The continuity that covenant theology draws from the texts is so refreshing when you get it, that I would challenge you to take a look, or a fresh look at it.
Dispensationalism seems to have a problem with schizophrenia within the Godhead. The discontinuity produced by the dispensational system also leaves no reason to read the OT other than to moralize its characters or try to make sense of a verse in Revelation. That robs one of the riches of redemptive history.
Okay. I'm done.
prophecy70
Active Member
Do you believe?this speaks of Jesus...and when;
1]
zech13
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
2] zech6
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the Lord.
15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God.
3]jer23
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
1]
zech13
7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the Lord of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the Lord, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The Lord is my God.
2] zech6
12 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the Lord of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The Branch; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the Lord:
13 Even he shall build the temple of the Lord; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.
14 And the crowns shall be to Helem, and to Tobijah, and to Jedaiah, and to Hen the son of Zephaniah, for a memorial in the temple of the Lord.
15 And they that are far off shall come and build in the temple of the Lord, and ye shall know that the Lord of hosts hath sent me unto you. And this shall come to pass, if ye will diligently obey the voice of the Lord your God.
3]jer23
5 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.
6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, The Lord Our Righteousness.
7 Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that they shall no more say, The Lord liveth, which brought up the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt;
8 But, The Lord liveth, which brought up and which led the seed of the house of Israel out of the north country, and from all countries whither I had driven them; and they shall dwell in their own land.
Practically any Premillennialist. The Millennium is mentioned in only one place, and it's in the most esoteric and symbolic book in the Bible. (Well, one of the two, anyway, (the other being Canticles.))
And yet, we're to presuppose the Millennium is something other than metaphorical.
Disagreeing with you is not a symptom of mental illness.
Well, no reason except all the Prophets of the OT preach Christ. Acts 10:43. Not to mention Acts 20:27 and 2 Timothy 3:16-17.
Then don't do it.
Looks like you are getting close.
Yes, we all understand the Revelation is squarely apocalyptic in genre. But that does not mean the end of the world can't include a Millennium.
You might want to read my post again.
Okay. "Dispensationalism seems to have a problem with schizophrenia." Yep. Still there.
How old are you, Tom? Reading glasses might just be in order.
In the first exodus;ex4...Israel...the covenant son
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
isa49;
3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
11 And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.
Jesus is The True Covenant Son..........
mt2;
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Do you see this???
22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
23 And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
isa49;
3 And said unto me, Thou art my servant, O Israel, in whom I will be glorified.
4 Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the Lord, and my work with my God.
5 And now, saith the Lord that formed me from the womb to be his servant, to bring Jacob again to him, Though Israel be not gathered, yet shall I be glorious in the eyes of the Lord, and my God shall be my strength.
6 And he said, It is a light thing that thou shouldest be my servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved of Israel: I will also give thee for a light to the Gentiles, that thou mayest be my salvation unto the end of the earth.
7 Thus saith the Lord, the Redeemer of Israel, and his Holy One, to him whom man despiseth, to him whom the nation abhorreth, to a servant of rulers, Kings shall see and arise, princes also shall worship, because of the Lord that is faithful, and the Holy One of Israel, and he shall choose thee.
8 Thus saith the Lord, In an acceptable time have I heard thee, and in a day of salvation have I helped thee: and I will preserve thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, to establish the earth, to cause to inherit the desolate heritages;
9 That thou mayest say to the prisoners, Go forth; to them that are in darkness, Shew yourselves. They shall feed in the ways, and their pastures shall be in all high places.
10 They shall not hunger nor thirst; neither shall the heat nor sun smite them: for he that hath mercy on them shall lead them, even by the springs of water shall he guide them.
11 And I will make all my mountains a way, and my highways shall be exalted.
Jesus is The True Covenant Son..........
mt2;
15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
Do you see this???
I can read it fine. And insults will result in a point against your account.
And I gave you the benefit of the doubt about not implying God is mentally ill.
At least the pre-mil can generally distinguish the figures of speech from that which should be taken literally.
And old Bible scholar visited the youthful teacher late one night.
The scholar came secretly because he did not want his peers to question him about the visit.
He came seeking the answer to a question.
The youthful teacher after a short dialogue ask the old scholar, “You are a respected teacher of note, yet you do not understand?”
Perhaps he needed the teaching that relies on truth from “spirituality” rather than that which can be relied upon as factually.
And old Bible scholar visited the youthful teacher late one night.
The scholar came secretly because he did not want his peers to question him about the visit.
He came seeking the answer to a question.
The youthful teacher after a short dialogue ask the old scholar, “You are a respected teacher of note, yet you do not understand?”
Perhaps he needed the teaching that relies on truth from “spirituality” rather than that which can be relied upon as factually.
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