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By faith alone or by faith and acting?
- Thread starter Luke2427
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Amen, sister.
I wonder when this culture took the premium off of the deep things and put it on simplicity as if the latter is superior to the former.
The bible does not teach that.
A healthy society appreciates the complexity of many issues.
A society on the down turn loves simplicity and hates things that require depth.
How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? -Proverbs 1:22
STT, I pastor a growing church, I am a spiritual leader in our community, I am leading our church through a very exciting building project right now, I minister in our prison weekly, I am taking three classes (two of which are master's level history courses), I have five young children that require much of me, I preached seven times last week, and this week not many times less. I don't have time to answer every question you throw out there. You expose your immaturity by publicizing that you expect such nonsense.
The Scriptures have perspicuity- your words are utterly void of that.
And I don't request nor require you to excuse me. I don't care if you excuse me. Who are you???
I have more than a clue of what is at your core. All anyone would have to do is read your words and they reveal your core.
For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks- Matthew 12:34
If they read your words they will see that you believe at your core that salvation is by faith plus ACTING UPON FAITH.
It could not be clearer.
Yes.
MacArthur's view is nearly identical to mine along the lines of lordship salvation.
What YOU are saying MacArthur and all people who value sola fide would spurn.
MacArthur believes, as I do, that true faith PRODUCES works and is of such a nature that the believer naturally yields to the lordship of Christ.
You believe that faith is some abstract thing that has to be activated by some mysterious work of ACTING UPON IT.
You believe, it appears, that God gives everybody saving faith but it does not save until they activate by some mysterious volitional work of ACTING UPON IT.
So it is by grace through faith PLUS acting upon your faith.
So you admit it. You believe salvation comes by faith PLUS.
Your prooftexting here seems to indicate that you believe salvation comes by faith PLUS trying to enter a door and standing firm to the end.
The RESULT is good works.
The good works are not part of what saves you.
You said you must ACT UPON FAITH in order to be saved.
The Bible teaches the opposite. You must BELIEVE to be saved. The acting upon faith is simply the natural and inevitable result.
You see, Skandelon, Arminians CANNOT abide sola fide- not in its purity. You cannot because your ENTIRE SOTERIOLOGICAL SYSTEM rests absolutely, completely upon the premise that our salvation is really the result of our choice.
But since the Bible says that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone you have to REDEFINE FAITH to make your system sound biblical.
At your core you believe this: Salvation is by grace through CHOICE.
With lip service you SAY this: salvation is by grace through faith.
You have to redefine faith as a choice.
But faith is not a choice. You do not CHOOSE to believe ANYTHING.
Faith comes by the power of external forces working on you persuading you that something is true.
You don't CHOOSE to believe in gravity. Gravity persuades you that its existence is true.
You don't CHOOSE to believe in Christ as Lord. The Gospel and the Holy Spirit PERSUADE you that he is Lord. No choice involved there.
But you and other anti-cals have to, in order to justify the existence of your entire system, ADD one more step to it: ACTING UPON FAITH.
Because acts are the results of choice. You HAVE TO, I mean ABSOLUTELY HAVE TO, have choice involved in salvation. So you just ADD it in there to suit you.
But like it or not, salvation is not by choice. It is by grace through faith.
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Isn't this verse talking about unbelievers that scorn the knowledge of the Lord? Further, isn't the actual context of the verse that "simple" indicates "foolish"? (i.e., how long will the foolish love foolishness?)
In other words, this verse has nothing to do with the simplicity of the gospel message; and this verse doesn't say what you're trying to make it say. Worse, you would apply it to a fellow believer?
Wondering if those who are so quick to throw the "h" word around will reply to that. What's the over under?
Christ is the author of the doctrines of grace.
Christ is also a trinitarian.
Christ, while on this earth, could have been rightly called an eternal securitist.
He could have been called a believer in a great many doctrines.
Calvinism is just a name we apply to the doctrines of grace which Jesus clearly espoused.
We call it that because Calvin was the one who most recently, most vociferously and most eloquently reminded us of these doctrines of Christ.
So yes. OF COURSE Christ was a Trinitarian, an eternal securitist and a Calvinist.
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The context concerned the matter of what it takes to be saved.
You answered that by saying that one must act upon his faith.
seekingthetruth
New Member
Oh yes, here we go again.
All of us IGNORANT regular Christians should bow down to you highly educated, COMPLEX Calvinists.
Forgive me Rick, for being so stupid, and simple.
John
seekingthetruth
New Member
This post is the biggest lie ever posted.....
Jesus was not the author of DoG!!!!!
John
seekingthetruth
New Member
I will come right out and say it...
[snip - inflammatory language]
And you are misrepresenting my savior!!!!!
John
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seekingthetruth
New Member
Post reported.
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seekingthetruth
New Member
The word refers to one easily persuaded.
This inordinate love of simplicity is not founded in Scripture.
The Spirit searcheth the deep things of God.
We are to leave the elementary doctrines of Christ and move on to maturity.
We are to love to dive deeper.
We should scorn the notion of remaining in the shallows of doctrine all our lives.
preacher4truth
Active Member
Is there a passage you can reference about the "simplicity of the Gospel?"
I've not seen it, but I do know the verse that many people point to. It's typically used to mock study, intellect, laboring in the word &c contrary to the Biblical mandate of how we are to behave towards such that do, 1 Timothy 5:17.
Let me be clear. I do not deny that the Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand on its surface.
It is a poor man's Gospel.
But no Christian should be satisfied with just the surface of the doctrines of Christ once he has been saved.
And he CERTAINLY should not despise the deep and complex truths of Scripture. He should mine for them as precious treasure. He should be most thankful for those with theological training who help him uncover those glorious nuggets located deep beneath the surface.
There's something wrong with somebody who hates depth and despises Christian scholarship.
It is a poor man's Gospel.
But no Christian should be satisfied with just the surface of the doctrines of Christ once he has been saved.
And he CERTAINLY should not despise the deep and complex truths of Scripture. He should mine for them as precious treasure. He should be most thankful for those with theological training who help him uncover those glorious nuggets located deep beneath the surface.
There's something wrong with somebody who hates depth and despises Christian scholarship.
seekingthetruth
New Member
The only problem with this, is that your crazy off the wall doctrines and arrogance dont show the scholarship that you claim you have.
[snipped]
John
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seekingthetruth
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