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By faith alone or by faith and acting?
- Thread starter Luke2427
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Personally, I like what Forlines has to say on this matter.
“I believe that saving faith is a gift of God in the sense that the Holy Spirit gives divine enablement without which faith would be impossible (John 6:44). The difference between the Calvinistic concept of faith and my concept of faith cannot be that theirs is monergistic and mine is synergistic. In both cases it is synergistic. Active participation in faith by the believer means it must be synergistic. Human response cannot be ruled out of faith. Justification and regeneration are monergistic. Each is an act of God, not man. Faith is a human act by divine enablement and therefore cannot be monergistic.” [The Quest For Truth, pg 160, emphasis his]
“I believe that saving faith is a gift of God in the sense that the Holy Spirit gives divine enablement without which faith would be impossible (John 6:44). The difference between the Calvinistic concept of faith and my concept of faith cannot be that theirs is monergistic and mine is synergistic. In both cases it is synergistic. Active participation in faith by the believer means it must be synergistic. Human response cannot be ruled out of faith. Justification and regeneration are monergistic. Each is an act of God, not man. Faith is a human act by divine enablement and therefore cannot be monergistic.” [The Quest For Truth, pg 160, emphasis his]
Forlines was a professor of my Arminian professors at the college I attended a little more than a decade ago.
He also utilizes this kind of reasoning to justify the possibility that one can deny his faith after having been truly saved and forfeit his salvation and be once again damned.
Since, in his mind, faith is something humans DO, it is something they can undo. The Calvinist believes that humans do indeed believe but only because God causes them to believe. This enables security.
The problem Forlines has here is that he thinks, like most Arminians, that faith is a choice.
It is not.
You cannot CHOOSE to believe something- you must be PERSUADED. Something is ACTING UPON YOU that causes you to believe.
You do not CHOOSE to believe in gravity. It has PERSUADED you to believe in it.
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Well, on THAT point, I would respectfully disagree with Mr. Forlines, but I still like his take here.
Here's five; Christ, Gill, Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown:
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1793506#post1793506
Six, if you want to include me.
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I too believe Christ was a Calvinist!
seekingthetruth
New Member
Wasn't Christ here on Earth long before Calvin was?
Oh wait, let me guess, Christ "foreknew" and "predestined" Calvin and Christ agreed with everything Calvin taught?
Give me a break. Your theology gets stranger and stranger as you spout off.
John
seekingthetruth
New Member
So, if Calvin had all the answers, then why do we need Jesus?
I mean, if God has already chosen who will go to heaven, and who cannot, and Calvin can explain all of that to us, then why do we need Jesus? Cant God just decide to save you and not me without Christ dieing on the cross?
You Calvinists make no sense at all.
John
seekingthetruth
New Member
And as usual, Luke/Rick/His Highness logs out when the questions get tough and he cant answer them.
John
John
It's actually called foot in mouth problem
MB
quantumfaith
Active Member
Wondering if those who are so quick to throw the "h" word around will reply to that. What's the over under?
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quantumfaith
Active Member
Wondering if those so are so quick to throw the "h" word around will reply to that. What's the over under?
, I am glad that most around here refuse to toss the "H" bomb too quickly and easily.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Go read it again Luke. You intepret my words just about as well as you interpret scriptures. The difference is I KNOW my intent and you still think you know my intent better than I do, as you go on to say...
You are clueless as to what is at my core, Luke. If I hadn't explained my intent OVER and OVER to you regarding how true saving faith WILL result in works, then this kind of thing may be excused but you choose to ignore my explanations in order to erect a heretical straw-man.
Have you studied MacArthur's teachings in the Lord-ship Salvation controversy? You should and then maybe you can engage in an informed discussion with me over the distinctions of this debate. You might be surprised to find that you are taking the opposing view to those who typically hold to the reformed tradition, as you seem unable or unwilling to distinguish between dead and living faith...
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved--you and your household."
Someone asked him, "Lord, are only a few people going to be saved?" He said to them, "Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to."
"but he who stands firm to the end will be saved." - Matthew 24:13:
Why? Could it be because it doesn't result good works? BINGO.
OH, that must mean you don't believe we are saved by Grace through faith alone!!! You just said it has to produce works!!! SEE SEE SEE everyone! At Luke's core he doesn't believe in 'sola fide.' :laugh:
How does that feel?
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This is the most confusing thread I've ever read in my life.
I think I'll just stick with Jesus on this one.
John 3:18
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.
Simple, to the point. Thank you Lord for the simplicity that is in Christ. :flower:
I think I'll just stick with Jesus on this one.
John 3:18
Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)
18 Anyone who believes in Him is not condemned, but anyone who does not believe is already condemned, because he has not believed in the name of the One and Only Son of God.
Simple, to the point. Thank you Lord for the simplicity that is in Christ. :flower:
1)
1. Calvin did not have all the answers. Some of his answers were wrong.
2. No, God is just. God could not just forgive without Christ dying on the cross.
1. Calvin did not have all the answers. Some of his answers were wrong.
2. No, God is just. God could not just forgive without Christ dying on the cross.
quantumfaith
Active Member
And the "Why" of number two, we really do not understand, save for "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins".
You really do not want to "know the answer"....because Aaron and others have answered it for you many times.
The grace of God is manifested in the gospel...not to the Jew only, but to all men.
All men are not saved
All the elect are effectually called by the word and Spirit.
Some of those who are dead in Adam...never even hear of the gospel at all.
No one who is lost , can be said to be effectually called;
All your quotes say that works grow out of faith. You have misrepresented, innocently perhaps, what they said.
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