By faith alone or by faith and acting?

[seekingthetruth]

Post reported.

Ahhhh redneck, i am sorry

Would you forgive me if I let you wash my feet?

John

 

[preacher4truth]

John, I'm disappointed in your behavior.

 

[kyredneck]

Ahhhh redneck, i am sorry

Would you forgive me if I let you wash my feet?

John

Post reported.

"The post is inflammatory in that an insult is intended to the Old Baptist practice of feet washing."

 

[slave 4 Christ]

seekingthetruth: This post is the biggest lie ever posted.....

Jesus was not the author of DoG!!!!! John

Sir, Your premise is noted. Now could you please take steps to give proof of its verity. If what Luke said is a lie, surely it can be proven as such.
Thanks for your cooperation.

 

[jbh28]

Report it twice, it will still be true

John

seekingthetruth, please stop the person attacks on others that disagree with you. This is not a Christlike way to post.

 

[Benjamin]

Christ is the author of the doctrines of grace.

Christ is also a trinitarian.

Christ, while on this earth, could have been rightly called an eternal securitist.

He could have been called a believer in a great many doctrines.

Calvinism is just a name we apply to the doctrines of grace which Jesus clearly espoused.

We call it that because Calvin was the one who most recently, most vociferously and most eloquently reminded us of these doctrines of Christ.

So yes. OF COURSE Christ was a Trinitarian, an eternal securitist and a Calvinist.

My, things are getting thick around here!

1) Luke, since I understand you are working on your academics, please do yourself a favor and take a class in Philosophy - Basic Logic so you can tell difference between valid and invalid claims and recognize fallacious statements. It’s embarrassing to see you shame yourself with that type of reasoning.

2) You are treading on dangerous ground and sounding cultic in your zealousy to stand on the flawed systematic determinist' principles of men and prophesying/claiming that Christ is the author them. Get your priorities in order and stop the idol worship!

 

[Amy.G]

I wonder when this culture took the premium off of the deep things and put it on simplicity as if the latter is superior to the former.

Actually the word simplicity refers to a singleness, a pure devotion to Christ. It doesn't mean uncomplicated. But some make it complicated.

The bible does not teach that.

It doesn't teach what?

A healthy society appreciates the complexity of many issues.

I don't care what society thinks.

A society on the down turn loves simplicity and hates things that require depth.

Is that what's wrong with this country? I thought it was because we had turned away from God and replaced Him with the idolization of ourselves. We just need more deep thinkers and God will be pleased.

How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? -Proverbs 1:22

Simplicity in this verse means foolishness. The fool is one that is in rebellion to God. The knowledge that he hates is the wisdom that comes from God. This verse has nothing to do with the "deep thinkers" of scripture.

I love to study the deep things of scripture. I study everyday. But this thread has made something as simple as faith into something so obscure and complicated that I can't figure out what you're talking about. But I do understand what Jesus said. If an unbeliever was to ask what is faith and began to read this thread, he wouldn't have a clue what faith is. Not that he needs to. When God saves us, we just believe and rejoice. Very uncomplicated.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Ok, I apologise.

But when you start calling Jesus a Calvinist, I get really upset.

You guys can believe whatever garbage you want to, but don't put it on my Savior, please.

John

 

[Don]

Is there a passage you can reference about the "simplicity of the Gospel?"

I've not seen it, but I do know the verse that many people point to. It's typically used to mock study, intellect, laboring in the word &c contrary to the Biblical mandate of how we are to behave towards such that do, 1 Timothy 5:17.

Can you point to Prov 1:22 and say that this verse is actually talking about "going deeper" into scripture?

 

[Don]

Let me be clear. I do not deny that the Gospel is simple enough for a child to understand on its surface.

It is a poor man's Gospel.

But no Christian should be satisfied with just the surface of the doctrines of Christ once he has been saved.

And he CERTAINLY should not despise the deep and complex truths of Scripture. He should mine for them as precious treasure. He should be most thankful for those with theological training who help him uncover those glorious nuggets located deep beneath the surface.

There's something wrong with somebody who hates depth and despises Christian scholarship.

No one's arguing that. My concern here is your use of a verse that, when taken in context, doesn't mean what you're using it to mean. That's a tactic used by ifb kjvo pastors to support their positions rather than scriptural positions, and should be avoided.

 

[Skandelon]

I have more than a clue of what is at your core. All anyone would have to do is read your words and they reveal your core.

For out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks- Matthew 12:34

But you've refused to deal with my actual words Luke, but instead read your words into what I write and then go on to draw unfounded and ridiculous conclusions. Just as you do here...

If they read your words they will see that you believe at your core that salvation is by faith plus ACTING UPON FAITH.

Those are Luke's words, and now my words...

"Salvation is by 'LIVING FAITH' which WILL act. Dead faith doesn't act." (see James, who you, like Luther, choose to ignore)

MacArthur's view is nearly identical to mine along the lines of lordship salvation.

You mean like AA Hodge and C Hodges' views are identical to yours regarding the atonement? Yet the quotes I provided proved you wrong yet again... :smilewinkgrin:

What YOU are saying MacArthur and all people who value sola fide would spurn.

Really?

“MacArthur writes that faith ‘encompasses obedience,’ and that obedience is ‘an integral part of saving faith.’ Indeed, obedience is bound up in the very ‘definition of faith,’ being a constitutive element in what it means to believe.’ Thus any ‘concept of faith that excludes obedience’ must be rejected because obedience is ‘indivisibly wrapped up in the idea of believing.’ In fact, ‘the character of true faith’ is nothing less than the ‘higher righteousness’ of the Beatitudes of Matthew 5:3-11.8 MacArthur even suggests that obedience is ‘synonymous with’ faith. And he quotes with approval Rudolf Bultmann's dictum, ‘To believe’ is ‘to obey.’” References from: MacArthur's Book called "Faith Works."

Do you ever get tired of being wrong Luke? :smilewinkgrin:

You believe that faith is some abstract thing that has to be activated by some mysterious work of ACTING UPON IT.

You believe, it appears, that God gives everybody saving faith but it does not save until they activate by some mysterious volitional work of ACTING UPON IT.

So it is by grace through faith PLUS acting upon your faith.

Strawman. Quote my actual words Luke. I never said any of these things.

So you admit it. You believe salvation comes by faith PLUS.

:laugh:

All I did was quote scripture and this is the conclusion you draw??? Hilarious. wow... You can and will read whatever you want into whatever you want, won't you Luke?

You said you must ACT UPON FAITH in order to be saved.

Quote me in context and we will discuss it... but I never said that.

The Bible teaches the opposite. You must BELIEVE to be saved. The acting upon faith is simply the natural and inevitable result.

So why don't the demons act? You have yet to draw a distinction between living and dead faith Luke. READ JAMES!

This is the mistake Calvinists always seem to make. They assume if someone really understands something that they must accept it, and if they believe something they must act in accordance with it. I understand Liberalism but I reject it. I believe dieting is better for my health but I don't want to diet. We make choices against what we believe all the time and to deny that reality is just .... naive.

Read "Faith Works" by MacArthur and come back so we can have a more informed discussion on the subject.

 

[preacher4truth]

Can you point to Prov 1:22 and say that this verse is actually talking about "going deeper" into scripture?

Don,

I don't recall going there or saying that, nor even implying it.

I asked you a question.

In addition, are you applying Proverbs 1:22 somehow as to your meaning in your above question? Please share.

 

[Don]

Don,

I don't recall going there or saying that, nor even implying it.

I asked you a question.

In addition, are you applying Proverbs 1:22 somehow as to your meaning in your above question? Please share.

I'm avoiding your question, because it's rabbit-trailing away from this current rabbit-trail.

Amy mentioned simplicity of the gospel; Luke derided the post, going into his usual "deeper study" diatribe (which, as we all agree, is a worthy endeavor); but he used Proverbs 1:22 as support of his position. I then pointed out that Proverbs 1:22 is talking about the foolish who reject God, not actually support for Luke's position.

You then asked about verses that support the simplicity of the Gospel.

In the context in which I was posting, your question is meaningless, although worthy of another thread.

 

[preacher4truth]

I'm avoiding your question, because it's rabbit-trailing away from this current rabbit-trail.

Amy mentioned simplicity of the gospel; Luke derided the post, going into his usual "deeper study" diatribe (which, as we all agree, is a worthy endeavor); but he used Proverbs 1:22 as support of his position. I then pointed out that Proverbs 1:22 is talking about the foolish who reject God, not actually support for Luke's position.

You then asked about verses that support the simplicity of the Gospel.

In the context in which I was posting, your question is meaningless, although worthy of another thread.

Well, being honest here bro, I didn't read that far back into the thread, so I didn't see Amy's comments, nor Luke2427's.

For the record, I wasn't putting out a leading question for a rabbit trail, I simply wanted to know your position there. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[DaChaser1]

This post is the biggest lie ever posted.....

Jesus was not the author of DoG!!!!!

John

technically you are correct, it was the HOLY SPIRIT who authored them!

 

[seekingthetruth]

technically you are correct, it was the HOLY SPIRIT who authored them!

What????

[snipped]

John

 

[kyredneck]

What????

snipped

John

Post reported.

 

[seekingthetruth]

Post reported.

Report me all you want to. Until you can prove that the HS was the author of DoG, then it is a lie!!!!!!

John

 

[DaChaser1]

Report me all you want to. Until you can prove that the HS was the author of DoG, then it is a lie!!!!!!

John

Did the HS author the bible or not?

 

[seekingthetruth]

Did the HS author the bible or not?

Yes, but DoG does not repesent the Bible!!!!

The HS did not author the DoG

[inflammatory]

John