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Calvin: God is the Author of Sin

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Yeshua1

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othe company
I don't know

How about his one? Seems pretty sure on it!
Calvin writes: “First, it must be observed that the will of God is the cause of all things that happen in the world; and yet God is not the author of evil.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.169, emphasis mine)
 

Yeshua1

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We are not permitted to invent mystery where none exists.

For instance,
Q.At about what age did Jesus begin his public ministry?
A. It's a mystery
B. ~30yrs

There seems to be a paradox in area of God soveregnity/a free will, correct?
 

Martin Marprelate

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Because God is sovereign yet;
1. God is Light and in Him is no darkness (1 John 1:5 )
2. A heart that devises wickedness is an abomination to Him (Proverbs 6:18)
Correct.
3. Israel committed sins God never imagined (Jer 32:35)
Not quite true as a glance at Genesis 22:2 will confirm. Look at the Jeremiah text again and try to understand it
4. Satan and not God is the father of lies (John 8:44)
Correct.
Meaning he is Sovereign without authoring specific acts of His creation.
Not so. God's decree is universal (Daniel 4:34-35; Romans 8:28; Romans 11:26; Ephesians 1:11).
It covers good and evil events (Isaiah 45:7; Amos 3:6; Job 1:21; Jeremiah 15:2).
It covers the sinful acts of men (Genesis 50:20; 2 Samuel 16:10-11; Luke 22:22; Acts 2:23 and of course Acts 4:27-28).
It covers the free acts of men (Proverbs 16:1, 9: Proverbs 19:21; Proverbs 21:1; Romans 8:28, 35-39).
It covers chance occurrences (1 Kings 22:28-34; Job 5:6; Job 36:32; Proverbs 16:33; Jonah 1:7).
It covers all details of our lives (Job 14:5; Psalm 139:16; Matthew 10:29-30; James 4:15).

Please especially read Isaiah 14:24-27 and Isaiah 46:10-11.
 

Agent47

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othe company


How about his one? Seems pretty sure on it!
Calvin writes: “First, it must be observed that the will of God is the cause of all things that happen in the world; and yet God is not the author of evil.” (Concerning the Eternal Predestination of God, p.169, emphasis mine)
Isn't is lunacy to claim ALL is not ALL?

Please quote Calvin, not books about him. Ever read this book in the first place?

There seems to be a paradox in area of God soveregnity/a free will, correct?
Wrong.
 

Agent47

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Correct.

Not quite true as a glance at Genesis 22:2 will confirm. Look at the Jeremiah text again and try to understand it

Correct.

Not so. God's decree is universal (Daniel 4:34-35; Romans 8:28; Romans 11:26; Ephesians 1:11).
It covers good and evil events (Isaiah 45:7; Amos 3:6; Job 1:21; Jeremiah 15:2).
It covers the sinful acts of men (Genesis 50:20; 2 Samuel 16:10-11; Luke 22:22; Acts 2:23 and of course Acts 4:27-28).
It covers the free acts of men (Proverbs 16:1, 9: Proverbs 19:21; Proverbs 21:1; Romans 8:28, 35-39).
It covers chance occurrences (1 Kings 22:28-34; Job 5:6; Job 36:32; Proverbs 16:33; Jonah 1:7).
It covers all details of our lives (Job 14:5; Psalm 139:16; Matthew 10:29-30; James 4:15).

Please especially read Isaiah 14:24-27 and Isaiah 46:10-11.

What is a decree with reference to God?

'God decreed'....Exactly what did God do?

Explain without any scriptures for now and perhaps we will get somewhere
 

Agent47

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Another quote

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man....some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. Inst 21:5
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.xxii.html

This quote is not necessarily calling God Author of Sin but it describes predestination as accomplished by eternal decree.

What is eternal decree
 

Yeshua1

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Isn't is lunacy to claim ALL is not ALL?

Please quote Calvin, not books about him. Ever read this book in the first place?


Wrong.
Not really, as God is the One who is free to determine and also to allow all things to happen, as per His plans/purposes, and yet never hs he sinned, nor tempted othrs to sin!

And there is no oparadox between God will andours ONLY if you take , wich Calvin di, that God alone has true free will!
 

Yeshua1

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Another quote

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man....some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. Inst 21:5
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.xxii.html

This quote is not necessarily calling God Author of Sin but it describes predestination as accomplished by eternal decree.

What is eternal decree
The determiniative Will of God, hat whic He directly ordained to happen
 

Agent47

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Not really, as God is the One who is free to determine and also to allow all things to happen, as per His plans/purposes, and yet never hs he sinned, nor tempted othrs to sin!

And there is no oparadox between God will andours ONLY if you take , wich Calvin di, that God alone has true free will!

You haven't read a book and you are plucking quotes from it?

Are you tickled by ignorance?
 

Agent47

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The determiniative Will of God, hat whic He directly ordained to happen
How many types of Will does God have?
Define them
Are they all certain/sure?

What particular brand of God's will was at play in the Fall of man at Eden?
 

Rippon

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Another quote

By predestination we mean the eternal decree of God, by which he determined with himself whatever he wished to happen with regard to every man....some are preordained to eternal life, others to eternal damnation; and, accordingly, as each has been created for one or other of these ends, we say that he has been predestinated to life or to death. Inst 21:5
https://www.ccel.org/ccel/calvin/institutes.v.xxii.html

This quote is not necessarily calling God Author of Sin but it describes predestination as accomplished by eternal decree.
The Calvin quote you cited has absolutely nothing to do with your false charge of God being the Author of sin. It is dealing with God's eternal decree.
 

Yeshua1

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How many types of Will does God have?
Define them
Are they all certain/sure?

What particular brand of God's will was at play in the Fall of man at Eden?
God hs His determined Will, as he is thedirect cause
He has his permissive will, as he allows for indirect/secondary causes
 

Yeshua1

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The Calvin quote you cited has absolutely nothing to do with your false charge of God being the Author of sin. It is dealing with God's eternal decree.
Exactly, it has all to do with what God determined what would happn to saved/lost, not even discussing sin and its cause!
 

Martin Marprelate

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What is a decree with reference to God?

'God decreed'....Exactly what did God do?

Explain without any scriptures for now and perhaps we will get somewhere
I think your greatest need is actually to read some Scripture, rather than rooting about in Calvin trying to prove things you don't even understand. Read some of those Scripture links I posted and you may get a clue as to what God's decree is, or failing that, have a look at Luke 2:1 to see an example of a decree.
 

Agent47

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The Calvin quote you cited has absolutely nothing to do with your false charge of God being the Author of sin. It is dealing with God's eternal decree.

I said as much. Why do you post before reading?

What is 'eternal decree since you used the term?
 

Agent47

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I think your greatest need is actually to read some Scripture, rather than rooting about in Calvin trying to prove things you don't even understand. Read some of those Scripture links I posted and you may get a clue as to what God's decree is, or failing that, have a look at Luke 2:1 to see an example of a decree.

You are better founded in scriptures than me ok.
What is an eternal decree?


Looks like everyone loves throwing this vocabulary around while totally ignorant of its meaning
 

JonC

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I have picked up the Fall. Calvin rejects freewill terming it as fiction. Can you please explain to me in your own words any other possible conclusion apart from God authoring it?.

Well, not speaking for Calvin, yes. But you won’t like it.

I believe that we, by necessity, speak of God as having a “will” as if God were human. Given the present conversation, we are speaking as if God were sitting in the drawing room planning exactly how he would accomplish redemption. Did God plan the Fall? Did God decree the Fall (Calvinism) or Ordain the Fall (Arminianism)? We picture God at his desk planning out redemption…Judas will betray his Son, this he let people know long before it happen (even the price of betrayal)…but does this mean that Judas had a choice?

I believe this anthropomorphic. God does have a will, but God’s will is not our will. God decreed the Fall, that it would happen because this is the purpose God created man – for his own glory. And Adam ate of the fruit of his own free will. God decreed that Judas would betray Jesus. And Judas betrayed Jesus of his own free will. God decreed the Cross. And the Jews crucified Jesus of their own free will. But in all of this (the Fall, Judas’ betrayal, Jesus’ crucifixion) God did not author evil because God’s intent and motivation was his own glory and that through the redemption of man whereby men become brethren with God and children of the Father. The evil originated from within the men, as was the inclination of their nature.

No more Servetus please.
Awwww. Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away I graduated seminary and was encouraged by my professor to continue post-graduate studies in Church History. I always regretted not making that happen…but it was impossible at the time.

Servetus was a more interesting topic ...just not the one at hand, and since you said "please"....:)
 
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