Calvinism Alone Gives fullest glory and honor to the Grace of God

[JesusFan]

God, before the foundation of the world decided that man would be saved by Grace through faith in the finished work of His Son.

That was His plan, and the predestination of all men who will believe.

You see, Z, God did not predestinate who would be saved, but how we would be saved.

the father did elect out all those lost sinners whom Jesus died for in their stead

 

[JesusFan]

I told you that I was a Calvinist and a Christian. Calvinism is, obviously, not difficult to understand. The more one accepts Calvinism the more they see the philosophy in every passage. Too much and God's Word becomes twisted. It no longer teaches what it states but what Calvinism wants it to teach. Calvinists from the past become the "God given teachers" of the faith whose role is to teach the "real" meaning of Scripture.

After being told the ink blot is a bat, pretty soon it becomes difficult to recognize the ink blot for what it realky is.

When I was a Calvinist it woukd have been impossible for the current me to have convinced me of the error. I realky did read Ephesians 1 and see Calvinism. That is called indoctrination, and perhaps I did it to myself by reading the philosophies of old dead men.

What changed my mind was God leading me back to His Word. I consciously decided to stop the philosophy and read what was actually written in Scripture. Doing this, it was very easy to see that Calvinism was seriously flawed and foreign to Scripture. It was harder to stop seeing "the bat" and study God's Word.

I say that just to say the best we can do in these threads is point to God's Word. Each person has to make their own choices.

Interpretations will still differ, which is fine. But we have to direct those who have strayed from His Word in doctrine back to Scripture, and if they refuse allow them to ho their way (shaking off the dust).

Except that reading and studying the scriptures, especially in the Greek text itself, has convinced me ever more that Calvinism Sotierology is the best way to understand salvation of God towards lost sinners, and that Pst atonement fits best those defined doctrines of Grace in the bible, and no, did not get that from calvin nor spurgeon

 

[JesusFan]

This would explain your attention to detail in exactly what the Scripture says and doesn't say.

I've noticed you pointing out several times the Scripture is not necessarily saying what is believed it to be saying.

You are assuming in that statement though that they support what he holds and teaches

 

[JesusFan]

Yes. I made too many assumptions in the past. What made it worse is I taught them and they influenced my preaching. I know I am forgiven, but it is still a scar. For me it is a reminder to be very careful with God's Word snd try my best not to stray.


God convicted me of teaching theory (kinda out of the blue, just woke up Monday morning convicted that a sermon strayed into theory over Scripture). And just saying "examine for yourselves" does not change the sermon.

I wrote down my belief on the topic and every passage supporting it. Then I erased passages that did not actually support my belief. In the end I had no passages.

It was a hard lesson, but one that I am grateful to have learned. One could spend a lifetime just with God's Word ("what is written" without philosophies or theories) if actually open to His Word. There is more depth than I could have imagined. And I am grateful to have moved on from the shallowness of Calvinism and now try my best to avoid worldly wisdom.

Doubt that many would agree with you though that scholars such as a Calvin or a Spurgeon had "shallow theologies"

 

[JesusFan]

Don't forget that most theologies (not all) hold the same ti be true (including Arminianism).

The best way to evaluate Calvinism is not in what it has in common with traditional Christianity but in how it differs. Make a list and compare that list to to God's Word. Disregard anything that is not in the Bible.

Much of what Non cals hold the bible states though would be disagree with what the bible actually teaches to us

 

[Van]

Calvinism alone starts with the assumption tahtw e aere all spiritually dead in Adam, and as such, it is impossible for us to do anything in and by ourselves to merit any kind of salvation

Most believers, not just Calvinists believe we were made sinners, Romans 5:19, and therefore we were conceived in iniquity, Psalm 51:5, and therefore we were brought forth is a spiritually separated state from God, thus spiritually "dead" in our sin, Isaiah 59:2.

The Opening post, therefore is unsubstantiated, and false.

Only through the washing of regeneration are we made spiritually alive, together with Christ. Ephesians 2:5

Not in Christ = Spiritually dead
In Christ = Spiritually alive

No verse says or suggest that while we are spiritually dead, we cannot seek God or put our trust in Christ, Luke 13:24. Not all, but many do seek God and eternal life in Christ.

 

[Van]

Since we were born spiritually dead, then we must be born anew to become spiritually alive. That spiritual rebirth is called "REGENERATION."

The washing of regeneration removes the sin penalty of separation, allowing us to be made alive together with Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Calvinism alone starts with the assumption tahtw e aere all spiritually dead in Adam, and as such, it is impossible for us to do anything in and by ourselves to merit any kind of salvation

this is in error. Calvinists are not the only ones who believe this

 

[Eternally Grateful]

And that reason right there is why many cannot accept it as ther truth, as we still have proud pride in our sin natures that feels like we deserve heaven, and that we are "not that bad", but the Cross shows to us that "we all really were that bad"

Yes

But Gods love proves he is really really good. not willing any should perish, but all come to truth, in fact he loved so much he died for the world.. so that everyone has the ability to be saved.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Election is God actually choosing to save a hell bound sinner. It is election to salvation

yes, But why did he elect and who.

saying election without defining it can cause confusion.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God does not save a plan. He has ordained to save all those elected unto salvation. They and thy alone are the objects of His seeking and saving.
They alone are the Everyone believing of Jn 3:16..... no more, no less.

No, the everyone of John 3 is everyone

Jesus used moses and the serpent as an example. when moses lifted the serpent, salvation was available to everyone. But not everyone was saved. Because not everyone believes..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

God, before the foundation of the world decided that man would be saved by Grace through faith in the finished work of His Son.

That was His plan, and the predestination of all men who will believe.

You see, Z, God did not predestinate who would be saved, but how we would be saved.

yes, and he predestined that those who are saved will be conformed to his image

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Thanks for your response Charlie,
Many evangelical Baptists have this simple, but biblically anemic understanding of what God has revealed As His intentions toward fallen mankind.
In many churches, those who say they "believe the Gospel" are saying that they believe they are sinners, and believe Jesus died to save sinners. Often times many remain as spiritual babes, or young children in the faith, failing to study and grow as they should. There are many reasons for this.

Many I have seen, have little to no understanding of our triune God as A Covenant making, and Covenant keeping God. They fail to understand the very nature of God's design of what exactly be accomplished at the cross. When called upon to expound a bit, they fumble and stumble as they have not been instructed in these things. Your post above is biblically deficient, and you do not see how it is actually unbiblical, that is, opposed to revealed truth. You think you have it correct, and are trying to help. but what you offer is way off. I do thank you for your attempt at offering help even though what you offer is defective. That is as nice as I could put it.

You in this post are walking down the line of what you are being taught.

are people defisient in knowledge? yes. it happens all the time

But that does not prove you are right and the rest of us are wrong

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Ties in very nicely to the doctrine of PST, as jesus died not for a plan, but for individual sinners that he died in the stead of

he died for the world. He said himself. he was not sent to judge, but that the world MAY be saved (the possibility of salvation is there for all. the guarantee of salvation is not assured)

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Much of what Non cals hold the bible states though would be disagree with what the bible actually teaches to us

this goes for Calvies as well..

 

[JonC]

Except that reading and studying the scriptures, especially in the Greek text itself, has convinced me ever more that Calvinism Sotierology is the best way to understand salvation of God towards lost sinners, and that Pst atonement fits best those defined doctrines of Grace in the bible, and no, did not get that from calvin nor spurgeon

There is no "except". I know without a doubt that studying the Greek text would not lead somebody to Calvinism. Was the seminary where you studied Greek accredited? I ask because some "seminaries" are not (many ate diploma mills).

The Doctrines of Grace are not in the Bible. This is another readon I question where you studied. Not all points within the Doctrines of Grace were even considered until the 17th century.

That, as you should know, is the nature of theology. Theology always addresses questions and issues contemporary to churches. It builds. An issue comes up and theologians address that issue. Doctrine is created. But sooner or later that doctrine creates more issues or questions and that is addressed, more doctrine created or pre ious doctrine refined.

It is impossible to arrive at Calvinism simply by reading Scripture in a vacuum (apart from Western philosophy, apart from theology, apart from theory).

That you do not realize this and read Calvinism into Scripture unaware is my point. You, above all members, ha e shyed away from even trying to offer Scripture in discussing topics on this forum.


Post the passages that state Calvinism and let's look at it.

 

[JonC]

Much of what Non cals hold the bible states though would be disagree with what the bible actually teaches to us

Some of what they hold may be unbiblical.

I am also sure we all hold ideas that are wrong.

My point is our misunderstandings (we see dimly, now, as through a glass) should be misunderstandings of Scripture.

If you take Calvinism for where it departs from thr traditional faith and compare it (the Calvinistic distinction....Calvinism itself) with Scripture it is very easy to understand that Calvinism is unbiblical. Calvinism ignores God's Word in favor of what they think the Bible may be teaching (they deny Scripture teaches what is written in the text of Scripture).

The most foolish thing a Calvinistic has ever claimed is sola scriptura.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Some of what they hold may be unbiblical.

I am also sure we all hold ideas that are wrong.

My point is our misunderstandings (we see dimly, now, as through a glass) should be misunderstandings of Scripture.

If you take Calvinism for where it departs from thr traditional faith and compare it (the Calvinistic distinction....Calvinism itself) with Scripture it is very easy to understand that Calvinism is unbiblical. Calvinism ignores God's Word in favor of what they think the Bible may be teaching (they deny Scripture teaches what is written in the text of Scripture).

The most foolish thing a Cakvinist has ever claimed is sola scriptura.

the most foolish thing any person who calls himself a child of God has ever claimed is that scripture is not our sole authority. Because it gives men the authority..

 

[JonC]

the most foolish thing any person who calls himself a child of God has ever claimed is that scripture is not our sole authority. Because it gives men the authority..

True....I should have said the most dishonest thing a Calvinist has ever claimed is sola scriptura.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

True....I should have said the most dishonest thing a Calvinist has ever claimed is sola scriptura.

so does this makes me dishonest. even though I reject all forms of Calvinism? Just asking,, not sure what your feelings is on this