Calvinism and Free Will

[webdog]

What's that saying about a black kettle?

Isn't trolling in violation of BB rules?

 

[webdog]

Hats off to you npetreley, for defending the faith in such a well showing in manner of articulation of the truth. Don't be discouraged by them dodging your pointed questions. Keep-up the good work.

In Christ...James

Yes...because Alex and Allan have dodged such "pointed questions"

If it is articulation of the truth you want, James, might I suggest actually absorbing what Alex and Allan put forth.

 

[s8147817430]

Do you have even an inkling of a clue what my tongue in cheek comment was about?

Ummm, yup...

I am not a total dolt.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

Hats off to you npetreley, for defending the faith in such a well showing in manner of articulation of the truth. Don't be discouraged by them dodging your pointed questions. Keep-up the good work.

In Christ...James

Feel free to support your claim and sincerity by thoroughly demonstrating the pointed questions asked and the alleged dodges. I am certain your documentation will be detailed to support your charge.

 

[webdog]

edited...not even worth it...

 

[JOAN OF ARC]

edited...not even worth it...

I assume your edit is of your own free will! LOL! :saint:

 

[Jarthur001]

Isn't trolling in violation of BB rules?

What is trolling? and what does that have to do with what I said?

 

[Jarthur001]

Yes...because Alex and Allan have dodged such "pointed questions"

If it is articulation of the truth you want, James, might I suggest actually absorbing what Alex and Allan put forth.

I have...therefore I rest my case.

 

[npetreley]

What is trolling? and what does that have to do with what I said?

Don't mind him. He and Q have failed so miserably in their arguments they've stooped to hinting at reasons why we shouldn't be allowed on BB anymore. I can see why. We're a thorn in their sides, a constant reminder of their inability to admit they're wrong.

 

[Jarthur001]

Feel free to support your claim and sincerity by thoroughly demonstrating the pointed questions asked and the alleged dodges. I am certain your documentation will be detailed to support your charge.

Sure very simple.

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

3) what happened to man in the garden?


I'll be back later with more.

but...you need to address these 1st.

 

[Alex Quackenbush]

Sure very simple.

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

3) what happened to man in the garden?


I'll be back later with more.

but...you need to address these 1st.

Maybe you missed what my post said since this obviously is not a response to its contents. Here I will repost it:

Feel free to support your claim and sincerity by thoroughly demonstrating the pointed questions asked and the alleged dodges. I am certain your documentation will be detailed to support your charge.

So again, when you DOCUMENT your charge showing all the posts where the questions you claim npetreley asked and the alleged posts that are "dodges" to these specific questions you will be responding to my post and its contents and context. So far you have done neither and the above is just a list of questions. And if you are unfamiliar with your allegations I will provide your post where you made the charges:

Hats off to you npetreley, for defending the faith in such a well showing in manner of articulation of the truth. Don't be discouraged by them dodging your pointed questions. Keep-up the good work.

So either have the integrity to provide evidence post by post and response by response showing both the alleged questions and alleged dodges and or look elsewhere, If indeed you have the courage to respond then you may have established enough confidence and respect regarding serious dialogue and someone willing to support their charges with evidence to further this discussion. (I'm not holding my breath of course but hey, why not surprise me).

 

[Jarthur001]

Maybe you missed what my post said since this obviously is not a response to its contents. Here I will repost it:



So again, when you DOCUMENT your charge showing all the posts where the questions you claim npetreley asked and the alleged posts that are "dodges" to these specific questions you will be responding to my post and its contents and context. So far you have done neither and the above is just a list of questions. And if you are unfamiliar with your allegations I will provide your post where you made the charges:


So either have the integrity to provide evidence post by post and response by response showing both the alleged questions and alleged dodges and then you may have established enough confidence and respect regarding serious dialogue and someone willing to support their charges with evidence to further this discussion. (I'm not holding my breath of course but hey, why not surprise me).

In other words you choose to dodge yet again.

i guess you have no answer....thats ok.

 

[Jarthur001]

Maybe you missed what my post said since this obviously is not a response to its contents. Here I will repost it:



So again, when you DOCUMENT your charge showing all the posts where the questions you claim npetreley asked and the alleged posts that are "dodges" to these specific questions you will be responding to my post and its contents and context. So far you have done neither and the above is just a list of questions. And if you are unfamiliar with your allegations I will provide your post where you made the charges:


So either have the integrity to provide evidence post by post and response by response showing both the alleged questions and alleged dodges and or look elsewhere, If indeed you have the courage to respond then you may have established enough confidence and respect regarding serious dialogue and someone willing to support their charges with evidence to further this discussion. (I'm not holding my breath of course but hey, why not surprise me).

2nd....please post where I addressed you? If you feel you did not dodge, why reply?

Now I ask again...

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

3) what happened to man in the garden?


I'll be back later with more.

but...you need to address these 1st.

 

[Jarthur001]

For "Q"

And while your at it...

you never addressed this ..

19 You will say to me then, “Why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will?” 20 But indeed, O man, who are you to reply against God? Will the thing formed say to him who formed it, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Does not the potter have power over the clay, from the same lump to make one vessel for honor and another for dishonor?
22 What if God, wanting to show His wrath and to make His power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 and that He might make known the riches of His glory on the vessels of mercy, which He had prepared beforehand for glory, 24 even us whom He called

Now YOU did address the verse before....but stopped short of what was asked.

another one..

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=1128070&postcount=175

Which one of you wants to bring a charge against God because He didn't behave the way you want Him to?

No need to say I'm sorry....I'm use to the misleading



Now I ask for the 3rd time....so please no dodge

Now I ask again...

1) Who desired to place the tree in the garden?

2) when this was placed in the garden, was God aware what would happen?

3) what happened to man in the garden?

 

[Jarthur001]

Yes that's it..."damnable heresies" :tear:

Amazing that ANYONE, particularly those holding to the "doctrines of grace" could EVER state God "desires" sin in any way, shape or form. He so HATED it that He gave us His Son as a Sacrificial Lamb!

Which of the men below would you kick off this board and not even let then post in the non baptist forms, if you had the power to do so?

John Milton (1608-1674), author of "Paradise Lost" & "Paradise Restored"
William Cowper (1731-1800), "There Is A Fountain,"
John Newton (1722-1807) "Amazing Grace!"
Augustus Toplady (1740-1778) "Rock of Ages,"
Phillip Doddridge (1702-1751) "O Happy Day"
Horatious Bonar (1808-1889)
Isaac Watts (1674-1748).
Martin Luther (1483-1546)
John Calvin (1509-1564)
John Knox (1505-1572)
John Wycliffe (1320-1384),
Jerome Zanchius (1516-1590)
Theodore Beza (1519-1605)
John Bradford (1510-1555)
Thomas Cranmer (1489-1556)
William Tyndale (1492-1536)
Hugh Latimer (1485-1555)
Nicholas Ridley (1500-1555)
Martin Bucer (1491-1551)
John Huss, (1369-1415),
Jerome of Prague (1360-1416)
William Sautre,
John Claydon,
Thomas Bilvey
James Bainham
John Lambert
Robert Barnes
Cranmer,
Ridley
Latimer
John Hooper (1495-1554)
John Foxe (1517-1587)
C. H. Spurgeon
George Whitefield (1714-1770),
Bunyan
Rowland Hill (1745-1833),
Robert Murray M'Cheyne (1813-1842)
Jonathan Edwards (1703-1758),
David Brainerd (1718-1747).
William Carey (1761-1834),
Stephen Charnock (1628-1680)
John Owen (1616-1683)
Thomas Chalmers (1780-1847)
John Howe (1630-1705)
John Ryland,
Abraham Booth (1734-1806)
Andrew Fuller (1754-1815)
Alexander Carson (1776-1874)
Augustus H. Strong (1836-1921)
Charles Hodge (1797-1878)
A. A. Hodge (1823-1886)
B. B. Warfield (1851-1921)
William G. T. Shedd
John A. Broadus (1827-1895)
James Petigru Boyce (1827-1888)
J. R. Graves (1820-1893)
B. H. Carroll (1843-1914)
J. M. Pendleton (1811-1891)
Alvah Hovey (1820-1903).
Matthew Henry (1662-1714)
John Gill (1697-1771),
Thomas Goodwin (1600-1679)
Thomas Manton (1620-1677)
John Brown (1784-1858),
John Trapp (1611-1669)
John Collinges (1623-1690)
Richard Sibbes (1577-1635)
Jeremy Taylor (1613-1667)
Robert Leighton (1611-1684)
Christopher Ness (1621-1705)
Charles Simeon (1759-1836)
Charles Hodge (1797-1878)
James Buchanan (1804-70)
J. C. Ryle (1816-1900)
Arthur Pink (1886-1952)
John Flavel (1630-1691)
Benjamin Keach (1640-1704)
John Rippon (1751-1836)
Christmas Evans (1766-1838)
John Clifford, Archibald Brown
J. B. Moody,
H. B. Taylor (1870-1932)
I. M. Haldeman
Jeremiah Burroughs
George S. Bishop
T. T. Eaton
Martin Lloyd-Jones (1899-1981).


I'll stand with these men any day and not with the "grace evangelical society".

 

[Rippon]

James , just a couple you missed . In no particular order .

Andrew Bonar 1810-1892

Robert Haldane 1764-1842

William Cunningham 1805-1861

John Dagg 1794-1884

Issac Backus 1724-1806

J.C. Philpot 1802-1869

John Kennedy 1819-1894

Thomas Bradwardine 1290-1349

B.B. Warfield 1851-1921

J.G.Machen 1881-1937

William Gadsby 1773-1844

T.T. Shields died in the 1950's

Herman Hoeksema 1886-1965

Q probably isn't familiar with most of them . He doesn't know Calvinistic theology . But despite the listings of all these fine men of the past ( and there are scores of well-known and respected living Calvinists preachers/theologians et cetra ) -- the Bible is our source of all things Calvinistic .

 

[npetreley]

It's a good thing most of these guys are dead. I'd hate to see them shamed by being booted off BB for their "dangerously unorthodox" views.

:laugh:

 

[Amy.G]

How about John Piper and John MacArthur for some modern day Calvinists?

 

[npetreley]

Oh, I came across this (below). I found it on a site called "LetsLearnTheology". I guess it's sort of the "Sesame Street" for theology, so I'm hoping it puts the concepts in simple enough terms for those who have been having such a difficult time grasping these fundamental truths.

Coming To Wrong Conclusions

Beware of the following two erroneous conclusions when pondering God's great plan:

1) God is the author of sin.

This is not true. God including sin in His plan does not make Him the author of it. I know this is hard to comprehend but this is clearly what the Bible teaches. God created men and angels good in the beginning. However, sin rose up in both of these creatures but the Bible simply does not tell us why. Satan and the human heart are the real authors of sin. This is included in God's great plan but in such a way as not to make Him the author of sin.

http://www.letslearntheology.com/content/view/42/26/

 

[Jarthur001]

Oh, I came across this (below). I found it on a site called "LetsLearnTheology". I guess it's sort of the "Sesame Street" for theology, so I'm hoping it puts the concepts in simple enough terms for those who have been having such a difficult time grasping these fundamental truths.



http://www.letslearntheology.com/content/view/42/26/

I happen to disagree with this as well. Sin is not made by any one, be it God or Satan or man.

(THIS JUST ADDED)
I should say...I disagree with satan making sin.

That is why we must always ask as you do all the time npetreley...what do you mean by author?

If we could get someone from the "other side" to answer this, we could go forward.


Sin is an expression of the will. This is yet another nail in free will of man. If God did not want sin, he would not made Adam with a will to choose. If man had no will, there would not have been sin in the 1st place. God must take over the will of man and save him, in order for salvation to take place.

*****************

OK...after thinking about it, I must recant on my disagreement. It is fair to say .."Satan and the human heart are the real authors of sin."...if we understand what author means.

My bad...sorry. I'll go back to my room.