Calvinism or Arminianism

Good point. And true to the purpose of the letter. Peter was not writing to lost men. He was addressing God's elect.

 

I am wondering what you need me for if you are going to answer your own questions.

The problem with everything you posted is that you have to change the meaning to so many words in the Scriptures. Like, whosoever, whomsoever, all, whole, ransom for all, God so loved the whole world, come unto me all ye ends of the earth and be ye saved, preach the gospel to every creature and he that believeth, on and on and on.

I will give you something to think about and that is that God is without time. Before God created the earth there was no time and after the earth is destroyed there shall not be any time. So, time was created for man and the Scriptures were written for man, and the word foreknow is for man for there is no foreknow with God for He is everlasting to everlasting and sees all, knows all. Therefore He saw us believe and knew who to call, to predestinate, to justify and to glorify as is laid out it in the following scriptures.

You see, we believe in influence and decision of which God's Spirit strives with us all the time and also the spirit of the devil is striving with us but by the inluence of the Spirit of God we choose to follow Him and be saved.
You believe in cause and effect, or a hammer and a nail. God being the hammer and hits the nail and the it has not choice but be driven into the wood.

God made man subject to vanity but not willingly, but by reason of Him who subjected the same in hope. We believe that God knows who believes but that His knowing is not what causes it to happen. You believe man is a robot and cannot resist the Grace. I really have to laugh when you Calvinist say you believe in Salvation by Grace and we don't. Salvation is of the Lord and we don't have anything to do with saving ourselves and neither do you. Salvation stands alone. Now to get to that Salvation it takes faith and that is where we differ. You believe that God changed your heart and then you believe. That is a robot. We believe God's Spirit strives with all men as the Scripture says "I stand at the door and knock and if any man will hear my voice and open the door I will come in and sup with him and he with me". (notice it says "open the door". You try to take away God's power to say He cannot make a man in His Sovereignity so complex that man has a mind and a heart and soul and can believe or disbelieve.

One question for you.
If man before the fall had a choice and I understand the Calvinist say that before the fall man could choose for Adam chose to eat of the tree. If man could choose before the fall, how come Chirst already stood as a slain Lamb before that? He stood as a slain Lamb while even you say man could choose. That is what we say also. Calvinism just don't hold water without changing a lot of Scriptures.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Timothy 2:3-6 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.

Acts 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

Romans 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

1 John 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
We are saved by Grace, through faith and not of our selves but it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast for we are His workmanship.
Ephesians, chapter 2
8": For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

"9": Not of works, lest any man should boast.

"10": For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

"11": Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
"14": For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;

"15": Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;
So here Apostle Paul is saying we are not saved by the works of the Law.
Acts, chapter 16
29": Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas,

"30": And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?

"31": And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

So here we see the same Apostle Paul says we do need the works of "believing". So let us rightly divide the word of truth. It takes "faith" in Eph: and it takes "belief" in Acts and both spoken by the same Apostle Paul.
Romans, chapter 8

"28": And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

"29": For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

"30": Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
So, according to Paul we must "believe" to be saved and God seeing all things at all times sees us believe, calls us, predestinates us to be conformed to the image of His Son (Christ like), justifies us (by the blood of Jesus) and Glorifies us, which we have not seen as of yet but God has seen for He is from everlasting to everlasting.

 

The problem here is man was only spiritually dead. He was, "dead to tresspass and sin". He was not physically dead as in didn't have the ability to do anything except be dead.

 

Correction;
Acts;
Was by Luke and not Paul, This was by Paul Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Hbr 11:6But without faith [it is] impossible to please [him]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and [that] he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

 

BroBob said:

I don't know about a hammer and nail, but Romans 9 speaks of a potter and the clay. Did the potter influence the clay? Or did he form it?

 

Is the clay a believer or not?

 

Whatever the clay is, it is that because it was formed to be that. Some to wrath and some to glory, but none by accident.

 

So God formed the rapist to be a rapist and the murderer to be a murderer? You espouse hyper calvinism.

 

Call it what you want. I'm just taking Romans 9 as it is. How are you taking Romans 9?

 

In context with the rest of the book, along with comparing it to the rest of Scripture. See Jeremiah 18.

 

What did God form Adam and Eve to be? Are you trying to say that God failed in His creation? Sounds a little gnostic to me.

 

Jeremiah 18:12. "But they will say, 'It's hopeless! For we are going to follow our own plans, and each of us will act according to the stubbornness of his evil heart.'
Doesn't this sound like God knew exactly what they were going to say and do? Sounds to me like He decreed it. God is in control webdog. Man centered theology is just that..... man centered. I hold to God centered theology.

 

Gnostic? You're kidding...right?

God formed Adam and Eve to be obedient to Him without forcing them to do so. If it is any other way, God is the author of sin for which man cannot be held accountable for.

 

It takes an awfully big leap to assume that knowledge of something = decreeing it.

 

Not kidding about gnosticism. One sect of gnostics believed that God intended to make a creation without a possibility of falling.

If you want to call God the author of sin, go ahead. If it was God's perfect will for man to be obedient.... they would be.

 

God is capable of awfully big leaps.

 

So, you do believe that God created the murderer to murder and the rapist to rape and Folley to play with little boys, and the potter formed them to do so. Actually, I wonder who claims to have an body of honor now?

1 Corinthians, chapter 15
"42": So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

"43": It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

"44": It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.



Wow!

 

Adam and Eve had the ability to obey God, but chose not to. Without the Holy Spirit we cannot obey God.