Calvinism or Arminianism

"Thank God He had no respect of persons but gave us all a chance to go to Heaven and not just the Calvinist."

By chance, I am dumbfounded by this statement.......

 

I am one who is happily Arminian with regards to God's Grace giving 'all' the possibility of Salvation. :love2:

Peace and God Bless.

 

I think you're on to something there. Can anyone give me a theological definition of "Chance"?

 

Probably along the lines of this:

Ecc 9:11I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race [is] not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.

 

So what is this passage telling us? That men are saved by chance?

Doesn't Ecclesiastes give us a view of things "under the sun"? What is "chance" above the sun, that is, in heaven?

 

Hello Bob,


Lets talk about context. What do you feel this verse is saying?


In Christ...James

 

Bingo!!!!


Ecclesiastes is about life without God!!!

 

I understand it to mean "chance" under Heaven. I take the world as a place to get ready to enter eternity, either Heaven or the Lake.

I think there is no dispute on what "time" is.

I never knew there was a dispute on what "chance" is.

 

Hello bob,


The "Preacher" makes it clear the subject of the book. If God is not in control, or when we view life without God in mind....or as the preacher says...when we just see life "under the sun"...then life is but chance.

 

I think it is saying using just this one phrase that there is a chance that the weak might win the battle such as David and the Giant.
In other words ALL have a chance. I mean that even the dumb have a chance to get rich or the man who is unskilled could end up with the reward.

It all is under the sun for us and its what we do "under the sun" that determines whether we will ever be above it.

 

Brother Bob, I was just wondering, have you ever been wrong about anything? I sure have. And I hope that I'm man enough to admit it when I am.

James has got you dead to rights on this point. Just admit it.

 

I failt to see what James is getting at. Life isn't "chance". God knows every minute detail about every life on this planet, and in His sovereignty uses each situation to bring Him glory.

 

One time!

I don't know what you mean by "got you" but I only gave what I believe the scripture to be saying. James has a reason for it not to mean what it says that "time and chance has happened unto all", and so do you. It is called Calvinism slant.

 

Well. Salvation left to chance is no salvation at all.

 

Its called context. That means something to the Calvinist.

 

A good course on hermeneutics would help many. Some of the worst exegesis I've ever seen has been on this board. That is one thing I can say for sure.... the calvinist do their homework on exegesis.

 

Hello Bob,

I reply to your post both yes and no. You said.."In other words ALL have a chance"....Yes...and this is what the preacher views life when there is no thought of God. This book must be read from beginning to end to understand it. Sorry for going on and on about it, but this book can change you life if you understand it fully. It may be the most needed book for the unsaved world today.

Right from the start the writer tell us the meaning...

I placed this in bold. The answer is just above...NOTHING!! Life is worthless without God.

In Chapter 2...the preacher starts looking


1st stop...pleasure and things...

Next wisdom...

after all this...check out 17-18

Chapter 3 16...."under the sun"...the wicked get away with being wicked. Meaning...without God there is no reason to be righteous

verse 19...without God...man is just like a beast.

now chapter 4 makes sense when it say...

Life without God is not worth living..

I'll not go though the whole book...one more..the key passage....

The preacher sees that it is when you look at DEATH that life is now wroth living...
Chapter 7...

It is HERE that the preacher finds the meaning of life. I can write tons of pages on this passage...but i want to move to your passage now...

Now we can read your passage and understand...

Chapter 9..

I need to cut this short because of work. I'll get back to it tonight.

In Christ..James

 

That's for sure. Verse by Verse Exposition. It's the only way to find the true value and meaning of a text. That's why I like James' explanations. He has done his homework.

 

Yeah, verse by verse, always taking it in context rather than just picking a verse here and a verse there to try to refute long passages that carry the idea through.

 

So what you are saying is before the 16th Century we were all just stumbling around with a limited understanding of Scripture until good ole Calvin established his exegesis?

Although I believe that Calvin, not Calvinism, established a pretty good 'systematic' (i.e. intellectual) understanding of what the Bible states in it's most literal sense I see no reason to assume such an exegesis or sense of Scripture was historically shared by the Apostles or later Theologians before the Age of the Enlightenment. There is definitely a departure in the continuity in Christianity from it's inception as a historical religion and the development of it as an intellectual discipline of Scriptural Interpretation in Calvin's Exegesis.

Rational? Yes! Historically consistent with the beliefs and practices of this religion? No!

Such has always given me a reason to exercise a great deal of humility in my profession and over-confidence in the works of mere men.

Baptist Theology is by it's own profession of personal liberty and individual salvation a spiritual relationship between God and man and not one of merely 'intellectual exercise of an exegesis'. The Bible is surely 'the' Vehicle for our relationship but not necessarily one of the intellect only but of the spirit. Calvinism appears to have forgotten this.

Regardless Peace and God Bless.