Calvinism or Arminianism

[Brother Bob]

Adam and Eve had the ability to obey God, but chose not to. Without the Holy Spirit we cannot obey God.

They were obeying God until they chose not to.

 

[reformedbeliever]

So, you do believe that God created the murderer to murder and the rapist to rape and Folley to play with little boys, and the potter formed them to do so. Actually, I wonder who claims to have an body of honor now?

1 Corinthians, chapter 15
"42": So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:

"43": It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

"44": It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.



Wow!

Act 4:24 And when they heard it, they lifted their voices together to God and said, "Sovereign Lord, who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and everything in them,
Act 4:25 who through the mouth of our father David, your servant, said by the Holy Spirit, "'Why did the Gentiles rage, and the peoples plot in vain?
Act 4:26 The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers were gathered together, against the Lord and against his Anointed'--
Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

What do you think bro. bob? Do you think God is so weak that his will is thwarted? No, wait.... I already know the answer to that question.
Wow!
As to your question about a body of honor... I have no idea of what you are trying to say. Why not just tell me?

 

[LeBuick]

I thought the lesson of the potter is even though the potter found faults in the clay he kept working with it. He fashioned it into a new design.

 

[Brother Bob]

Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel,
Act 4:28 to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

Talking about the Lord standing as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the world.

What do you think bro. bob? Do you think God is so weak that his will is thwarted? No, wait.... I already know the answer to that question.
Wow!

Yea, I would say Wow also to use this Scripture to justify the previous post.

Because He created them does not mean He created them to be pedophiles.

Romans, chapter 8
"20": For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

"21": Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The Body of Honor was to J. D.
We are living in a dishonorable body today. It has to die in order to get an honorable one.
"It is sown in dishonor and raised in Glory.?

 

[reformedbeliever]

Talking about the Lord.

Yea, I would say Wow also to use this Scripture to justify the previous post.

Because He created them does not mean He created them to be pedophiles.

Romans, chapter 8
"20": For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,

"21": Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

The Body of Honor was to J. D.

Who said anything about pedophiles but you? I simply gave you scripture to prove that what God has predestined to happen will happen. He just so happened to have predestined Christ to die just like He did... and by the people who did it. Yes, He predestined particular people to do exactly what they did. They willingly did it. He provided all the opportunities for it to happen... and it happened exactly like He predestined it. Remember how Christ mysteriously escaped every time He was surrounded by people who wanted to kill Him? That was not HIs predestined time. God is in control bob. God does not sin or cause anyone to sin... He just allows them to do what they willingly do. Their choices will always be consistent with what God has already decreed to happen.

 

[Brother Bob]

God does not sin or cause anyone to sin... He just allows them to do what they willingly do. Their choices will always be consistent with what God has already decreed to happen.

reformed;
You cross youself in this post. God either does predestinates it or He does not.

Do you believe man had a choice before the fall?

 

[reformedbeliever]

reformed;
You cross youself in this post. God either does predestinates it or He does not.

Do you believe man had a choice before the fall?

I didn't cross myself. I said God predestines everything that happens. He does this without sinning or being the cause of anyone sinning. You will have to ask Him how He does that.... I just believe it because the Bible says it.

Of course man had a choice before the fall. His free will was not libertarian free will however. His choices were always in line with what God had already decreed to happen. God put the factors in place that causes man to choose in a manner that will always be consistent with His decrees. We do not make amoral choices. Adam and Eve chose exactly the way God decreed it. Didn't you just tell me that the verse I used was only pointing out that Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world? Why would He have been slain before the foundation of the world if Adam and Eve could have chosen differently than they did?

 

[Brother Bob]

Oh, well some of the other Calvinist believe there was freewill before the fall unless I misunderstood them.

You said that God did not cause anyone to sin.

You said God did decree what everyone did.

These two statements say the opposite.

 

[jne1611]

I didn't cross myself. I said God predestines everything that happens. He does this without sinning or being the cause of anyone sinning. You will have to ask Him how He does that.... I just believe it because the Bible says it.

Of course man had a choice before the fall. His free will was not libertarian free will however. His choices were always in line with what God had already decreed to happen. God put the factors in place that causes man to choose in a manner that will always be consistent with His decrees. We do not make amoral choices. Adam and Eve chose exactly the way God decreed it. Didn't you just tell me that the verse I used was only pointing out that Jesus was the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world? Why would He have been slain before the foundation of the world if Adam and Eve could have chosen differently than they did?

A very good point!

 

[Brother Bob]

His choices were always in line with what God had already decreed to happen.

How could that be a choice?

Do you fellows think we can't see or what?

Of course man had a choice before the fall

Why would He have been slain before the foundation of the world if Adam and Eve could have chosen differently than they did?

You cross yourself again here.

Why would He have been slain before the foundation of the world if Adam and Eve could have chosen differently than they did

Why would this be a very good point if God "knows all" and is "everlasting to everlasting?" No one has never argued that God didn't know what man would do and that is why Jesus stood as a slain Lamb before the foundation of the world and not because Adam had sinned for he had not at that time.

 

[reformedbeliever]

How could that be a choice?

Do you fellows think we can't see or what?

What are you talking about bob? Are you talking about not being enlightened to the doctrines of sovereign grace? I'm sure God will use you for His purposes bob, don't worry about it. Not everyone is enlightened to this doctrine. Hang in there... God may not be through with you yet! lol :smilewinkgrin: Just yanking your chain there bob. I used e-sword for my scripture and just copied and pasted it. It came out that big. If I knew how to change it I would. I'm just not too enlightened on how to use this medium... :tongue3: Maybe God is not through with both of us bob. I hope not. God bless you brother.

 

[jne1611]

What are you talking about bob? Are you talking about not being enlightened to the doctrines of sovereign grace? I'm sure God will use you for His purposes bob, don't worry about it. Not everyone is enlightened to this doctrine. Hang in there... God may not be through with you yet! lol :smilewinkgrin: Just yanking your chain there bob. I used e-sword for my scripture and just copied and pasted it. It came out that big. If I knew how to change it I would. I'm just not too enlightened on how to use this medium... :tongue3: Maybe God is not through with both of us bob. I hope not. God bless you brother.

:laugh: I had the same problem with esword on another thread. I got bashed big time. My captions were very big.:laugh:

 

[Brother Bob]

God bless you to Reformed;

When you are going to cut and paste just highlight all the bold and click the AA in the top left corner and it will remove the format from the text.

 

[jne1611]

God bless you to Reformed;

When you are going to cut and paste just highlight all the bold and click the AA in the top left corner and it will remove the format from the text.

Hey Bro. Bob. Can you believe Bob Ryan thought I was actually asking whether his avatar was him when I asked you?:laugh:

 

[reformedbeliever]

God bless you to Reformed;

When you are going to cut and paste just highlight all the bold and click the AA in the top left corner and it will remove the format from the text.

Thank you brother for that information. I wish there was some instruction on how to use the quote feature. I don't know how to do multiple quotes. Thanks for any help.... but before you help me more, you better know I'm gonna use it to debate you.......:laugh: Thanks again brother

 

[Brother Bob]

Hey Bro. Bob. Can you believe Bob Ryan thought I was actually asking whether his avatar was him when I asked you?:laugh:

He seems so serious all the time. I believe in a happy people of the Lord.

 

[jne1611]

He seems so serious all the time. I believe in a happy people of the Lord.

Hard to be happy when you think your working your way to heaven. We should bring this up & see how he does on it sometime. If I thought my salvation depended on my good works, I'd be a miserable person!

 

[Brother Bob]

Thank you brother for that information. I wish there was some instruction on how to use the quote feature. I don't know how to do multiple quotes. Thanks for any help.... but before you help me more, you better know I'm gonna use it to debate you.......:laugh: Thanks again brother

multi-quotes are very easy too. If you know how to do one then after doing the one there has to be some text after it but only a word or two then you can use the quote thing again and so on.
If you can't do one tell me and I will walk you through it.

 

[reformedbeliever]

multi-quotes are very easy too. If you know how to do one then after doing the one there has to be some text after it but only a word or two then you can use the quote thing again and so on.
If you can't do one tell me and I will walk you through it.

I appreciate it... but i'm going to bed. I had an epidural steroid injection to the c-spine today.... and I'm hurting and tired. Is there a place to learn how to use these features? God bless brother

 

[Brother Bob]

I don't think so just by post to post. I just hold my mouse arrow over the above icons for a couple seconds and it tells you what they are.

Yea, I going to bed also, cya