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Calvinism or Arminianism
- Thread starter The Doctor
- Start date
Brother Bob
New Member
Baloney;
If you don't get Salvation under the sun you sure not going to get it above the sun. :BangHead:
Jarthur001
Active Member
Save your baloney for hard times and banging your head ...it will not help matters.Brother Bob said:
Bob..What do you think the writer means when he says..."under the sun"?
Blammo said:
Note carefully my question:
"And under grace, what condition is there that we might meet that is not first obtained for us by Christ?"
Your answer was:
"None."
You were doing so well, but then you continued:
"What I was saying is that Israel must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation just like everyone else. That's the condition for salvation God gave to every man. (if)"
You can't have it both ways, Blammo. Either Christ met all the conditions of salvation or he met some of them and left the rest to us.
If faith is a condition of salvation, and Christ has satisfied all the conditions of salvation, then who's faith saves us - our own faith, or the faith of Christ? And if saving faith is obtained for us by Christ, and we have it, then we have something that is not of ourselves, but something that is given to us by grace.
Either Christ is all sufficient or he is not. Do you see that?
John 3:14-15 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Numbers 21:8-9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
If you from sin
Are longing to be free,
Look to the Lamb of God.
He to redeem you died on Calvary,
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Look to the Lamb of God.
Look to the Lamb of God.
For He alone is able to save you,
Look to the Lamb of God.
When Satan tempts
And doubts and fears assail,
Look to the Lamb of God.
You in His strength
Shall over all prevail,
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Are you aweary?
Does the way seem long?
Look to the Lamb of God.
His love will cheer
And fill your heart with song.
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Fear not when shadows on your pathway fall,
Look to the Lamb of God.
In joy or sorrow Christ is all in all.
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Numbers 21:8-9 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.
If you from sin
Are longing to be free,
Look to the Lamb of God.
He to redeem you died on Calvary,
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Look to the Lamb of God.
Look to the Lamb of God.
For He alone is able to save you,
Look to the Lamb of God.
When Satan tempts
And doubts and fears assail,
Look to the Lamb of God.
You in His strength
Shall over all prevail,
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Are you aweary?
Does the way seem long?
Look to the Lamb of God.
His love will cheer
And fill your heart with song.
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Fear not when shadows on your pathway fall,
Look to the Lamb of God.
In joy or sorrow Christ is all in all.
Look to the Lamb of God.
Refrain
Blammo said:
Great! Now it's getting late in the day and time for my afternoon grub. I'm signing off before I get foggy headed and start accusing noncalvinists of not being saved, again.
Actually, now that I think about it, maybe they aren't really....Oh never mind. See ya later.
Brother Bob
New Member
"under the sun" means the life and death of a man. What he chooses to do, whether to enjoy the fruits of his labor or leave it to some one else, and that all is vanity without God. Men only concerned about the things of this life and not looking for the Wisdom. The point is James that the opportunity to choose Wisdom is "under the sun also", Which is to choose to live for God.
The most important thing about the whole book of Ecclesiastes is the Preacher is telling us that the Wisdom of God is what we should all be seeking, and that time and chance has happened unto all to get that Wisdom which is of God. That man is vanity without God (which is Wisdom) and all that man does if he don't get Wisdom then it is all in vain.
The whole book could be answered in one Scripture from the NT and that is: Lay up your treasures in Heaven where theifs and moths doth not break in and steal. Also, where your treasure is also is your heart. Ecc; is all about men loving the world more than God.
I am more convinced now than ever it means "time and chance has happened unto all men to have Wisdom which is Love of God".
1: For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in
the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
2: All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to
the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth,
as he that feareth an oath.
3: This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the
sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
4: For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.
6: Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing
that is done under the sun.
7: Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
8: Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
9: Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the
sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
10: Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in
the grave, whither thou goest.
11: I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the
wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
12: For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the
snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
13: This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:
14: There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great
15: Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same
poor man.
16: Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not
heard.
17: The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
18: Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.
The most important thing about the whole book of Ecclesiastes is the Preacher is telling us that the Wisdom of God is what we should all be seeking, and that time and chance has happened unto all to get that Wisdom which is of God. That man is vanity without God (which is Wisdom) and all that man does if he don't get Wisdom then it is all in vain.
The whole book could be answered in one Scripture from the NT and that is: Lay up your treasures in Heaven where theifs and moths doth not break in and steal. Also, where your treasure is also is your heart. Ecc; is all about men loving the world more than God.
I am more convinced now than ever it means "time and chance has happened unto all men to have Wisdom which is Love of God".
1: For all this I considered in my heart even to declare all this, that the righteous, and the wise, and their works, are in
the hand of God: no man knoweth either love or hatred by all that is before them.
2: All things come alike to all: there is one event to the righteous, and to the wicked; to the good and to the clean, and to
the unclean; to him that sacrificeth, and to him that sacrificeth not: as is the good, so is the sinner; and he that sweareth,
as he that feareth an oath.
3: This is an evil among all things that are done under the sun, that there is one event unto all: yea, also the heart of the
sons of men is full of evil, and madness is in their heart while they live, and after that they go to the dead.
4: For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5: For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the
memory of them is forgotten.
6: Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing
that is done under the sun.
7: Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
8: Let thy garments be always white; and let thy head lack no ointment.
9: Live joyfully with the wife whom thou lovest all the days of the life of thy vanity, which he hath given thee under the
sun, all the days of thy vanity: for that is thy portion in this life, and in thy labour which thou takest under the sun.
10: Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might; for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in
the grave, whither thou goest.
11: I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the
wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.
12: For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the
snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them.
13: This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:
14: There was a little city, and few men within it; and there came a great king against it, and besieged it, and built great
15: Now there was found in it a poor wise man, and he by his wisdom delivered the city; yet no man remembered that same
poor man.
16: Then said I, Wisdom is better than strength: nevertheless the poor man's wisdom is despised, and his words are not
heard.
17: The words of wise men are heard in quiet more than the cry of him that ruleth among fools.
18: Wisdom is better than weapons of war: but one sinner destroyeth much good.
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Brother Bob
New Member
Let me ask you a question James. The message of Ecc by the Preacher, was it to try to get men to seek God rather than the things of this life?
When you read the whole chapter, what is the "one event" that happened unto them all regardless whether good or
evil, rich or poor etc. (time and chance)
Chance is not "by chance" as some on here has suggested.
Chance is an opportunity.
Someone else given a time to repent
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
SPACE definition in Greek
3397. mikron mik-ron' masculine or neuter singular of 3398 (as noun); a small space of time or degree:--a (little) (while).
When you read the whole chapter, what is the "one event" that happened unto them all regardless whether good or
evil, rich or poor etc. (time and chance)
Chance is not "by chance" as some on here has suggested.
Chance is an opportunity.
Someone else given a time to repent
Rev 2:21 And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
SPACE definition in Greek
3397. mikron mik-ron' masculine or neuter singular of 3398 (as noun); a small space of time or degree:--a (little) (while).
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Brother Bob
New Member
So lets slice it.
Definitions of chance on the Web:
- [SIZE=-1]
- opportunity: a possibility due to a favorable combination of circumstances; "the holiday gave us the opportunity to visit Washington"; "now is your chance"
- luck: an unknown and unpredictable phenomenon that causes an event to result one way rather than another; "bad luck caused his downfall"; "we ran into each other by pure[/SIZE]
Brother Bob
New Member
well, can you get Salvation after you get to Heaven or do you have to get it here.
That whole book is talking about everything is vanity without the Lord so choose the Lord. Get Wisdom here, now and it explicitly says before you die.
You think he wrote a whole book about all the vanities if there was not a solution? :thumbs: You want context, well that is the context.
You won't even acknowledge there is different meanings to "chance". You want it all the Calvinist way but it don't work that way, thank you.
That whole book is talking about everything is vanity without the Lord so choose the Lord. Get Wisdom here, now and it explicitly says before you die.
You think he wrote a whole book about all the vanities if there was not a solution? :thumbs: You want context, well that is the context.
You won't even acknowledge there is different meanings to "chance". You want it all the Calvinist way but it don't work that way, thank you.
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Brother Bob
New Member
It was in response to your baloney!Do I detect anger?Or is it fear? or both?
Just kidding.