Calvinism, The fruit of scriptural truth pt3.

[ad finitum]

Faith does come by hearing, but where does hearing come from ? Jesus said Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

To be of God is to be born of God, thats who hears resulting in faith

With all due respect, this analysis falls short of due diligence. In verse 47, Jesus is talking to the Pharisees. The translation "of God" is a bit random because "of" is the Greek ek which can mean "of" or "from", depending on the larger context. What makes more sense in the context of Jesus' discourse with the Pharisees? The Pharisees are self-appointed teachers of law and tradition as if they are sent from God to shepherd the people. But none of that is true. So in this dialog, who is from God? Jesus. Who is not from God? The Pharisees. That is what Jesus is talking about.

The surest way to miss this understanding is to select isolated sentences and phrases out of context. That is the classic no-no known as proof-texting.

 

[Brightfame52]

With all due respect, this analysis falls short of due diligence. In verse 47, Jesus is talking to the Pharisees. The translation "of God" is a bit random because "of" is the Greek ek which can mean "of" or "from", depending on the larger context. What makes more sense in the context of Jesus' discourse with the Pharisees? The Pharisees are self-appointed teachers of law and tradition as if they are sent from God to shepherd the people. But none of that is true. So in this dialog, who is from God? Jesus. Who is not from God? The Pharisees. That is what Jesus is talking about.

The surest way to miss this understanding is to select isolated sentences and phrases out of context. That is the classic no-no known as proof-texting.

According to Jesus where does hearing come from ? Hn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[ad finitum]

According to Jesus where does hearing come from ? Hn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

In the context, the "he" that is from God is a purported religious authority. It's interesting that there is no citation from the passage that actually asks the question, but some other passage, taken out of context. One wonders why someone would do that.

 

[Brightfame52]

In the context, the "he" that is from God is a purported religious authority. It's interesting that there is no citation from the passage that actually asks the question, but some other passage, taken out of context. One wonders why someone would do that.

Who is it that hears the words of God? Read Jn 8:47!

 

[ad finitum]

Who is it that hears the words of God? Read Jn 8:47!

Actually, read Romans 10.

 

[Brightfame52]

Actually, read Romans 10.

Jesus tells us who it is that hears the words of God right here Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Jesus tells us who it is that hears the words of God right here Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

This is exactly right. Note that our Lord does not say, "therefore ye are not of God because ye hear them not.." One does not become 'of God' by the act hearing; one hears because God has open one's heart to hear (Acts of the Apostles 16:14).
It is the same in John 10:26. "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep." He does not say, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe."

 

[Brightfame52]

This is exactly right. Note that our Lord does not say, "therefore ye are not of God because ye hear them not.." One does not become 'of God' by the act hearing; one hears because God has open one's heart to hear (Acts of the Apostles 16:14).
It is the same in John 10:26. "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep." He does not say, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe."

Agreed, very well stated !

 

[Revmitchell]

This is exactly right. Note that our Lord does not say, "therefore ye are not of God because ye hear them not.." One does not become 'of God' by the act hearing; one hears because God has open one's heart to hear (Acts of the Apostles 16:14).
It is the same in John 10:26. "But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep." He does not say, "You are not of My sheep because you do not believe."

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Matthew 15:24

 

[Martin Marprelate]

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Matthew 15:24

Just so. But Christ's sheep are of a special breed. They are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice, and they follow Him (John 10:27). They do not become His sheep by hearing and following; they hear and follow because they are His Sheep (John 10:26).
Also, our Lord says, "When I am lifted up from the earth [in crucifixion], I will draw all peoples to Myself' (John 12:32). Not every person, for not all people are drawn to Christ, but Jew and Gentile, black and white, rich and poor, slave and free etc.(Revelation 7:9-10). And so it is.

 

[Scott Downey]

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”
Matthew 15:24

House of Israel is not Abraham's descendants just because born according to the flesh, as the definition of those who are 'of Israel' are those who are as Issac was born according to the promise of God's Spirit.

6 But it is not that the word of God has taken no effect. For they are not all Israel who are of Israel, 7 nor are they all children because they are the seed of Abraham; but, “In Isaac your seed shall be called.” 8 That is, those who are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God; but the children of the promise are counted as the seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: “At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son.”

So to be 'of the House of Israel' is more than just living as if you were, like Christ says it here, they make a false claim that God is their Father in John 8, But prove God is not by their desire to Kill Christ the Son and also that they don't believe in Christ. 40 But now you seek to kill Me,

54 Jesus answered, “If I honor Myself, My honor is nothing. It is My Father who honors Me, of whom you say that He is your God. 55 Yet you have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, ‘I do not know Him,’ I shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word. 56 Your father Abraham rejoiced to see My day, and he saw it and was glad.”

57 Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

58 Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”

Satan is their father, not God, So they are not really of the house of Israel, they are liars.

40 But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. 41 You do the deeds of your father.”

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”

42 Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me.

 

[Revmitchell]

Just so. But Christ's sheep are of a special breed. They are distinguished by their ears and their feet. They hear the Shepherd's voice, and they follow Him (John 10:27). They do not become His sheep by hearing and following; they hear and follow because they are His Sheep (John 10:26).
Also, our Lord says, "When I am lifted up from the earth [in crucifixion], I will draw all peoples to Myself' (John 12:32). Not every person, for not all people are drawn to Christ, but Jew and Gentile, black and white, rich and poor, slave and free etc.(Revelation 7:9-10). And so it is.

Who are the house of the lost sheep of Israel?

 

[ad finitum]

Jesus tells us who it is that hears the words of God right here Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

But faith comes by hearing.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Who are the house of the lost sheep of Israel?

They are God's elect whom Christ has not yet called. John 10:16; Romans 2:25-29; Galatians 3:7; Ephesians 2:11-22).
The Canaanite woman of Matthew 16:21-28 showed herself to be a spiritual Israelite by identifying Jesus as the Messiah and by her persistent faith.

 

[Brightfame52]

But faith comes by hearing.

Sure, but where does hearing come from ? Jesus tells us Jn 8:47

47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

 

[atpollard]

This seems contrary to, "Faith comes by hearing." What is one to hear if not "information"?

One gains "faith" by hearing "Truth", and truth is more than mere "information".

Niche and Bertrand Russel both offered me a great deal of "information" that served to explain much about the darkness in the world. That "information" led me to a belief in Nihilism. Truth (with a capital T) has a character that transcends mere information. It has a character that is transformative. It can trigger an "Aha" moment when one is transformed from "not seeing" to "seeing" ... and once TRUTH is seen, it cannot be unseen.

[John 6:43-45 NLT] 43 But Jesus replied, "Stop complaining about what I said. 44 For no one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them to me, and at the last day I will raise them up. 45 As it is written in the Scriptures, 'They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me."​

 

[Scott Downey]

The Holy Spirit teaches spiritually, and not in words of man's wisdom
1 Corinthians 2:13
These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

The Holy Spirit gives spiritually as a gift from Him an anointing to know the TRUTH, such as about who Christ is. that is one of the things the Spirit does for US, like Jesus says, when He comes He will guide you into all TRUTH (the things that you need to know and believe and so you will believe because He is teaching you).
Those that depart the FAITH, He is not teaching them as they are not of His SHEEP, they do not have this anointing from HIM to know the TRUTH. People who are not His Sheep wont continue to follow and believe in Christ as they were not granted to know God and Christ.

1 John 2
Deceptions of the Last Hour
18 Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. 21 I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth.

22 Who is a liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son. 23 Whoever denies the Son does not have the Father either; he who acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

Let Truth Abide in You
24 Therefore let that abide in you which you heard from the beginning. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, you also will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He has promised us—eternal life.

26 These things I have written to you concerning those who try to deceive you.
27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

 

[Dave G]

But faith comes by hearing.

I agree.

But how does hearing come?
Hearing comes by the word of God ( Romans 10:17 ).
Now...who willingly hears the word of God?

Similarly and closely related...
According to 1 Corinthians 1:18, "them that perish" think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness, while "us which are saved" believe it to be the power of God.
So...
Why does one hear and another does not?

Scripture tells us why people hear and why they do not:

Matthew 13:10-11.
John 8:43-47.
John 10:26-27.

It also tells us why people come to Christ and why they do not:
John 6:37-44.
John 6:64-65.

 

[Scott Downey]

I agree.

But how does hearing come?
Hearing comes by the word of God ( Romans 10:17 ).
Now...who willingly hears the word of God?

Similarly and closely related...
According to 1 Corinthians 1:18, "them that perish" think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness, while "us which are saved" believe it to be the power of God.
So...
Why does one hear and another does not?

Scripture tells us why people hear and why they do not:

Matthew 13:10-11.
John 8:43-47.
John 10:26-27.

It also tells us why people come to Christ and why they do not:
John 6:37-44.
John 6:64-65.

Yes Christ speaks to them who are without in parables so that they do not understand.
And not with a goal of making them understand
Very much the opposite of what we would expect.

The truth is revelation of Christ must come from God to a man and not by the minds of men, the wisdom of words of men.
God has decreed this, that no man can know the Godhood Trinity and be saved ,unless they are willed by them for that man to know them.
That is the power and the wisdom of God, to hide the truth from the wise and discerning and reveal the truth to BABES. (born of God babes), Luke 10:21-22

1 Corinthians 1
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
18 For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written:

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
And bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.”

21 In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.

22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.

 

[ad finitum]

I agree.

But how does hearing come?
Hearing comes by the word of God ( Romans 10:17 ).
Now...who willingly hears the word of God?

Acts 17:16-34

There are many who willingly hear. As a result, some of the willing, believe.

Similarly and closely related...
According to 1 Corinthians 1:18, "them that perish" think that the preaching of the cross is foolishness, while "us which are saved" believe it to be the power of God.

What is the meaning of perishing and being saved in this context (Corinthians)? The contrast in that verse is between those "perishing" and those "being saved". Whichever is the case, the process is not yet complete. It could have been said in a way that indicated completion, but Paul didn't write it that way. So in this verse at least, the idea of having been saved first, as a precondition to hearing with ears to hear and believing, is not supported.

So...
Why does one hear and another does not?

Scripture tells us why people hear and why they do not:

Matthew 13:10-11.
John 8:43-47.
John 10:26-27.

It also tells us why people come to Christ and why they do not:
John 6:37-44.
John 6:64-65.

Many of these are cited for apparent meanings which are out of context. It is important to follow the polemics of Jesus from start to finish before citing even a single verse or sentence of His words. Context is EVERTHING when it comes to interpretation. In John, the context of some dialogs span multiple chapters. It requires careful reading. People should not cite those verses without a full understanding of context.

Who is it that has ears to hear? The one who studies Jesus multi-chapter dialogs completely because his love for Jesus puts him in fear of misquoting or misrepresenting the one he loves. Otherwise, we may prove, in the end, to be a workman worthy of being ashamed because he did not study to show himself approved, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Everyone should constantly be in fear of wrongly dividing the word of truth.