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Featured Calvinism, The fruit of scriptural truth pt3.

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Iconoclast, Nov 23, 2020.

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  1. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    When the people of Nineveh heard, they repented.
     
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  2. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Exactly.

    My comment is you seem to be suggesting the lost cannot hear, but consider -

    Romans 10:13–15 For “everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord will be saved.” How then will they call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how will they believe in him about whom they have not heard? And how will they hear about him without one who preaches to them? And how will they preach, unless they are sent? Just as it is written, “How timely are the feet of those who bring good news of good things.”
     
  3. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    When the Lord moved to saved them by preaching of the word!
     
  4. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    All hear, but ONLY those who are his sheep can and will respond!
     
  5. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    What do you reckon is the point of the book of Jonah? God pleaded with Israel to change their minds. They refused. God goes to the heathen and says to Israel, "Look, even the heathen change their minds at my warning. Why don't you? If they will, then you being My people have no excuse."

    This is yet another example of God bending over backwards to persuade His people to change their minds. But in Calvinism, there is no persuasion. Any semblance of God persuading is just a pantomime. In the end, there are only God's sovereign decisions.

    Well, scripture says otherwise.
     
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  6. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    The revival in Ninevah was directly caused and due by the moving of the Holy Spirit to save them unto God!
     
  7. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    I must have missed that part of the story. There is no mention of this happening in Nineveh anywhere in the Bible. Is this new scripture?
     
  8. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    What is your response for God's choosing to do this and make it known in Israel? Was God's reason to teach Israel Calvinists truth? Or was it to persuade them? If Nineveh could be persuaded, why not God's chosen people? That is anti-Calvinist, isn't it?
     
  9. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    God was showing that salvation is of the Lord of Israel, as He is Lord to both Jews and Gentiles alike!
     
  10. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    But the question is why was He showing that? To persuade? Or as you suggest, just an FYI?
     
  11. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    To preshadow the coming messiah, who would be saved both Jews and gentiles!
     
  12. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    Again, why? Who is the target audience and of what benefit was it meant to be to them?
     
  13. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    We are that audience!
     
  14. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    Jonah was an Israelite. It was not for his benefit? The book was in the canon of the Old Testament, for Israel. It was not meant for them to understand? Was it not for a rebuke to rebellious Israel? To make them jealous? To persuade them to repent? No?
     
  15. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    was to show to them that their God was the God for all, not just a local Deity!
     
  16. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    This is just repetition of the same answer, i.e. it's just an FYI. "O Israel, by the way, the speed of light is 186 thousand miles per second. Don't know if you knew that or not. Otherwise, carry on."

    Why does an apostate Israelite need to know what happened in Nineveh? Was it designed to perhaps, elicit a response? Yes or no?
     
  17. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1 Well-Known Member
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    Yahweh always has His faithful remnant even in Apostate israel called out!
     
  18. ad finitum

    ad finitum Active Member

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    Sure, but Romans 10:21. This is entreaty, is it not? Persuasion? Pleading?

    Yes?
     
  19. Scott Downey

    Scott Downey Well-Known Member

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    The lost can not hear unless regenerated, then they have ears to hear.
    Jesus tells us they are unable to listen to what he says, refer John 8 as to being of the devil (not of God) versus of God. 'Of God' means born of God with a regenerated spirit, they hear and follow Christ. so those of the devil have inability, minds blinded by Satan.

    43 Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. 44 You are of your father the devil (the liar from the beginning)\

    45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. 46 Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me?
    47 He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”

    (an inability to hear being of the devil, as in naturally minded, of the flesh, etc,,,)

    verse 45, people of the devil, the flesh, wont believe the truth about Christ.
    Jesus raises the question of why they do not believe in
    him in verse 46, and gives the answer in verse 47

    It actually is a very straight forward explanation.
     
  20. JonC

    JonC Moderator
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    Only the spiritual understand spiritual things. I agree here. But I disagree one is born again prior to being saved.

    The difference is I believe that God draws men to Himself. Not that God recreates man so they can be saved but that God draws sinners to Himself. They hear not because they are changed but because the work of God drawing them prior to being reborn.

    This is similar to Peter's confession. It was not of Peter but of God (it was revealed to Peter by the Spirit).
     
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