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Calvinism vs Arminianism? Why either/or? Why not both?

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The Archangel

The Archangel

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delizzle said:
You spend some time on the atheist forum you would see otherwise. The division in the church is making Christ a laughing stock for many outsiders.
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The opinions of atheists on topics they do not understand is nothing compared to the orthodoxy and orthopraxy of believers and the church.

The Archangel


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Yeshua1

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delizzle said:
I am saying that the Great Commission is evidence for free will and that Calvinism is not entirely accurate. If we have no free will, the Great Commission is unnecessary. God can and will save His elect regardless of the Gospel being shared. People would hear the unavoidable call and flock by the thousands to church to hear the Gospel regardless of the Gospel being shared. Yet the Great Commission is there. Not because it is necessary, but because God honors us with privilege of sharing it.

So the question remains, if Calvinism is true, there is absolutely nothing that will prevent the predestined elect from hearing the Gospel and becoming saved. There is no need to worry about apostasy, because if they are truly elect, they would inevitably come crawling back.

So once again if Calvinism is true, what do we have to lose?
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God uses the preaching/teaching of the Gospel as the means by which the Holy Spirit saves out His elect though!
 
delizzle

delizzle

Active Member
The Archangel said:
The opinions of atheists on topics they do not understand is nothing compared to the orthodoxy and orthopraxy of believers and the church.

The Archangel


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Many of the atheist I have dealt with understand more about the topics than most Christians.
 
delizzle

delizzle

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Yeshua1 said:
Except they cannot prove their claims from just the scriptures, as must also add in extra biblical tradition!
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The catholic church is not sola scriptura. The church and sacred tradition has authority equal to scripture. So they say. But they did play a huge part in identifying scripture as canon.
 
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David Kent

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TCassidy said:
Then you don't understand what a calvinist is.

Most Particular or Reformed Baptists call themselves calvinists but none of them accept Calvin's views on church polity or infant baptism.
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Particular is the correct word for most of them, only a few cane be called reformed and they are those who accept the reformation teaching that the pope is Antichrist. Not only the reformers, but the Hussites, The Lollards, the Waldenses and others all taught that the pope is Antichrist.

I don't have to follow Calvin, Luther or any other teacher. I just need to follow what the scripture teaches. Apart from many, many other passages that teach the same or add to it
  • 2 Thessalonians 2:13- But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:
  • 14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.
  • 15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
  • 16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,
  • 17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.
God chose us from the beginning, (from before the foundation of the world in another place) Then he called us by the preaching of the gospel.
 
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Yeshua1

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delizzle said:
The catholic church is not sola scriptura. The church and sacred tradition has authority equal to scripture. So they say. But they did play a huge part in identifying scripture as canon.
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The canon of scripture was already completed and was in full use by that time, so merely agreed with what was already commonly accepted s being inspired of God!
 
delizzle

delizzle

Active Member
The Archangel said:
Not without the eyes to see and ears to hear that only Christ gives.

The Archangel


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Agreed. From my experience, the barrier for most atheists is not intellectual. It's a barrier of the will. It's not that they simply don't believe in God, they don't want to believe in God regardless of evidence. In all fairness, this is evidence that supports the doctrine of total depravity.
 
thatbrian

thatbrian

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The Archangel said:
The issue is, among other things, a matter assurance. For those who hold to non-reformed theology, the issue of assurance of salvation rests with the believer himself (or herself). For those who espouse reformed theology, on the other hand, the issue of security ultimately rests with God.
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This is so huge a point that it must be repeated. At the end of the day, the non-Cal's assurance is as fragile as a spider web because it rests on himself and his actions.

The Archangel said:
RC Sproul, I believe, once described our [reformed] eternal security in terms of a mother holding her baby. It isn't the baby's strength that matters, for the baby has none. It is the mother's strength that keeps the baby secure in her arms.
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Lovely picture.
 
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