No clear definition there especially one the supports the particular view.
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Sorry Yeshua! I'd say the only reason you're saying that is that you have to, in order to have your Calvinistic or your OSAS doctrine to hold. Jesus said however they actually BELIEVED and they did so for some time. We've been told from maybe your side that no one can believe unto salvation unless they're the Elect. This again states as clear as day....they had BELIEVED. Paul used the sower and the seed principal in referring to Salvation as well lest somebody say you can't use it in referring to Salvation.ONLY 1 of the 4 groups were actually saved!
Well Dave I'd have to suggest you're forcing that as an interpretation. I get it you need to do that to support your belief BUT the new birth is realized how? By believing! Some of the bad soil were believers and he that believes shall be saved.The good soil is the New Birth.
So then, regeneration precedes one's ability to hear the gospel inwardly?God does His saving work to them, as he applies the effectual grace of the Cross towards them, as I see all infants who die under His elective grace!
If you make the soil good, self-righteousness, not grace, determines who will be saved.Well Dave I'd have to suggest you're forcing that as an interpretation. I get it you need to do that to support your belief BUT the new birth is realized how? By believing! Some of the bad soil were believers and he that believes shall be saved.
It grants the person the means to hear and respond in faith towards jesus Christ.So then, regeneration precedes one's ability to hear the gospel inwardly?
The soil already had pre existing conditions to them, and the final one was a fertile field, which shows thta God Himself already had prepared them hear and respond!Sorry Yeshua! I'd say the only reason you're saying that is that you have to, in order to have your Calvinistic or your OSAS doctrine to hold. Jesus said however they actually BELIEVED and they did so for some time. We've been told from maybe your side that no one can believe unto salvation unless they're the Elect. This again states as clear as day....they had BELIEVED. Paul used the sower and the seed principal in referring to Salvation as well lest somebody say you can't use it in referring to Salvation.
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. 1 Peter 1:23
John 6:37. 'All that the Father gives Me will come to Me.........' Here is you Particular Redemption. The Father has given to the Son a vast crowd of people to redeem. This He has done, at measureless cost, and there is no question about it; they will come. Of their own will? Certainly, but it is God who has made them willing.Well Yeshua no offense but what is it about Jesus lamenting and crying over Jerusalem that HE WOULD HAVE SAVED both they and their children BUT THEY would not, that...you don't understand. That doesn't signify to you they could have been saved? Yes God has the final say about Salvation but let's be thankful that it's for whosoever will may come and drink of the water of life FREELY. Rev 22:17
Nope. Jesus in the same passage told ONE and ALL be careful what they hear! Mark 4: 23 Any need to say that if he controls everything? I think not. It'd be automatic.The soil already had pre existing conditions to them, and the final one was a fertile field, which shows thta God Himself already had prepared them hear and respond!
Nope. Jesus in the same passage told ONE and ALL be careful what they hear! Mark 4: 23 Any need to say that if he controls everything? I think not. It'd be automatic.
The word used in John 12:32 for 'draw' is helko and it means to draw, to drag off, to draw by an inward power, lead, impel.
This word is also used in...
Simon Peter then, having a sword, drew it and struck the high priest’s slave, and cut off his right ear; and the slave’s name was Malchus.[John 18:10]
Now, did Peter try to draw the sword, or did it actually come out of its scabbard as he drew it?
Simon Peter went up and drew the net to land, full of large fish, a hundred and fifty-three; and although there were so many, the net was not torn.[John 21:11]
Now, did Peter try to draw the net to land, or did he actually draw the net to the land?
When they did not find them, they began dragging Jason and some brethren before the city authorities, shouting, “These men who have upset the world have come here also;[Acts 17:6]
KJV uses 'drew', whereas the NASB uses 'dragged'. But its the same Greek word, 'helko' that is being used.
Did the mob of ppl try to drag/draw Jason and some of the Brethren before the city authorities or did they actually drag/draw them?
'Helko' does not mean that God drags/draws us against our wills, but rather that He effectually draws/drags us to Himself.
Yes but enlightenment in contained IN the Gospel itself....it's the power of God to those who believe and is provided for everyone or if you want to put it this way contained within it's message is the capacity to believe...FOR ALL. They can reject the light and refuse to believe or accept it. Why would they reject it? Because God wanted them too? No. For the reason of the verse you quoted above...John 3:19John 6:37. 'All that the Father gives Me will come to Me.........' Here is you Particular Redemption. The Father has given to the Son a vast crowd of people to redeem. This He has done, at measureless cost, and there is no question about it; they will come. Of their own will? Certainly, but it is God who has made them willing.
'.......And the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out.' Here is your 'whosoever wills.' Whoever comes to Christ will never be turned away, but the sad fact is that 'the natural man does not receive the things of God for they are foolishness to him.' Unless God does a work on someone's heart, he will always end up rejecting God. 'And this is the condemnation, that the Light has come into the world, and men preferred darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil' (John 3:19).
With all due respect I hardly think you can freeze that scripture up as a proof text for Calvinism. We basically use the same way of talking today as in, "Look...if you want to hear what I have to say then hear it. If you don't then do as you please!" Does such signify one is saying you don't have a capacity to embrace what's being said if you chose to? Most certainly not. The heart of Jesus is to encourage all to be of a good and noble heart. Is it not also foolish to suggest then when he said "He that has an ear let him hear" as to mean some of you God has chosen to hear over others BUT...I sure hope you're going to hear and in case you don't I'm going to exhort you to listen? Again if it were like you say it'd all be automatic.It wouldn't even make proper grammar sense to make a point of it.Nope, not what you say He is saying...
If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear.” And He was saying to them, “Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it will be measured to you; and more will be given you besides.[Mark 4:23,24]
Not given to one all, but to those who have ears to hear. Not everyone has these ears to hear with.
The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are able to believe in jesus, and only those whom are enabled to hear and believe by God would get saved by the Good news, and all the rest it is bad news to them!Yes but enlightenment in contained IN the Gospel itself....it's the power of God to those who believe and is provided for everyone or if you want to put it this way contained within it's message is the capacity to believe...FOR ALL. They can reject the light and refuse to believe or accept it. Why would they reject it? Because God wanted them too? No. For the reason of the verse you quoted above...John 3:19
Will you give me the quote and URL of the gospel preacher/teacher who says "say a prayer and live like a sinner"., the elect (those loved by God before the world was created and predestined to be saved) were called to the opposite of the 'Prosperity Gospel' and the 'OSAS' say a prayer and live like a sinner non-Gospel.
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"It is a hard thing to let go of mistakes we've made and sins. God wants us to do that because He knows the guilt and the condemnation will keep us from becoming who He has created us to be. Salvation and Christ's love is a gift. You don't earn it. You've got to receive that gift. I think one of the most important things is starting off the day forgiving others and forgiving yourself. You learn from your mistakes, but I don't think you have to drag them back into today."Will you give me the quote and URL of the gospel preacher/teacher who says "say a prayer and live like a sinner".
Thanks in advance.
I’ve argued many times that that if Calvinists were transparent about their Deterministic and predestination beliefs while giving the gospel that the Good News would seem more like Bad News for most who heard it, that preaching such would sinfully be putting darkness into the light, but I think this is the first time I’ve actually seen a Calvinist just come out and without shame call the “Gospel”, Bad News.The Gospel is the power of God unto salvation for those who are able to believe in jesus, and only those whom are enabled to hear and believe by God would get saved by the Good news, and all the rest it is bad news to them!
Hmm, Joel Osteen?"It is a hard thing to let go of mistakes we've made and sins. God wants us to do that because He knows the guilt and the condemnation will keep us from becoming who He has created us to be. Salvation and Christ's love is a gift. You don't earn it. You've got to receive that gift. I think one of the most important things is starting off the day forgiving others and forgiving yourself. You learn from your mistakes, but I don't think you have to drag them back into today."
Interview: Joel Osteen on Power of Prayer, Forgiveness, Trusting in God's Timetable