Jesus stated that he ALONE is the way to the Father, and since he was God Incarnate....
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Calvinism: What Have We Been Elected To?
- Thread starter atpollard
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The Gospel is the best news to the elect, as that is the very message the Spirit uses to save them, but to those who keep on rejecting Jesus to save them from theri sins, worst news!
Rockson
Active Member
So you were talking about the word draw as to mean the possibility of these various things . To draw by an inward power, to lead or impel as it says in the Greek. Ok God draws and seeks make a persuasive argument much like Paul did in Acts 26:28 where Agrippa stated, “Do you think that in such a short time you can persuade me to be a Christian?” Jesus not only used wisdom but gave demonstrations of his power which put them into a position where they should have believed. There was no reason not to have and that's why he rebuked them for not doing so.
To suggest God needed to do anything else in them or through them to create believing rings similar to the religious leaders insisting that after all Jesus had done surely he had to do something else...put in them maybe a believing that would never waver? We need more of a sign Jesus! The Lord however had done his job! If they weren't going to be willing then that was their choice! So God yes leads and impels. Well impel doesn't have to mean a guaranteed lock up into something. It equally can mean to urge, exhort, prod, and incite. Paul actually was criticized as one who would incite a riot as we read in Acts. Did Jesus incite things? Very much so and there's your strong drawing. Still doesn't mean he locks them into something by implanting in them WILL that they can't choose to resist and reject!
Ah....one more thing here....something I just noticed. Look at Paul's reply in Acts 26:29! “Short time or long—I pray to God that not only you but all who are listening to me today may become what I am, except for these chains.” Interesting you'll notice how Paul prayed that not only Agrippa but also everyone present would become Christians. If Paul was Calvinistic in his thinking why such a prayer? Why didn't he just settle up with the elect are going to be saved? Not rather presumptuous to have a I want to see all saved mentality? It certainly does seem he was of the opinion that God would like to save all. This strong passion of Paul alone in showing such a concern towards them could possibly tug on their hearts even more strongly...to receive. He was very obliviously like I say one possessing a God wanting to save all mentality. I don't think you could call that Calvinistic.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
I believe Justification is via Traditional 5 Point Calvinism, I believe in Believers Baptism and I believe in continuationism (of the gifts of the Holy Spirit.)
I do not believe in running down rabbit trails. You asked for a quote and I provided one. Take it or leave it. If you want to talk about Joel, start a topic.
I believe that we obtain sinless perfection at Glorification. What does sinless perfection have to do with: "Calvinism: What Have We Been Elected To?"
I stand by my earlier statement:
"the elect (those loved by God before the world was created and predestined to be saved) were called to the opposite of the 'Prosperity Gospel' and the 'OSAS' say a prayer and live like a sinner non-Gospel."
Do you believe that one can be saved and continue to live like a sinner? ... I didn't think so.
Your question about "who preaches that" is misguided because no one would say it like that, but the reality is that MOST evangelists and altar calls unintentionally preach exactly that message in disguise. There is so much emphasis on "making a decision" or "accepting Christ into your heart" that Salvation becomes an event ... 'born again'. Scripture on the other hand is full of messages about 'discipling' and 'following' and 'running the race'. The Church is giving birth to newborns and abandoning them to care for themselves with half-hearted advice to "read their bible, pray and attend church". The end result is a 'church' that is a mile wide and an inch deep with people who 'said a prayer' and 'attend church occasionally' but live lives little changed from before they were 'saved'.
I'm sorry bro, I misunderstood your statement and I agree that many tares have infiltrated the churches.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
No sweat. It's all good.
You just added to scripture that is not what it says.
If we hear the Gospel and keep on rejecting, heaping up more judgement and condemnation...
Exactly so. People do not reject Christ because God prevents them from receiving Him. They reject Him because they have wicked unbelieving hearts. They need a new heart and a new spirit before they can believe, but their inability is not physical, it is moral and spiritual. John 3:19 again.
If God gives some a new heart and other He withholds a new heart from them then yes those people reject God because He prevents them form receiving Him.
N o, they are doing what they want to do, cannot blame God, as they prefer darkness over light!
If God gives to one and not the other, then the other certainly can blame God.
atpollard
Well-Known Member
Is God obligated to give everyone a new heart?
Blame God for their own decision to stay dead in theri sins? Does every person deserve to get saved then?
Whether or not God is obligated is not the issue here. God is not obligated to give anyone a new heart accept that He do so in keeping with His promises.
The issue is making the gospel possible for some and not the other puts one in a position of being responsible for both. Further if you believe God predestines some to be saved then it is inconsistent to not also believe that God predestines the others not to be saved. Trying to have it both ways only makes one look inconsistent.
Yes of course, if the particular view is true. If one must receive a new heart, be regenerated, to be saved and believe and God withholds that grace and refuses to give that to them then yes God is to blame. I do not hold that position but you do.
Not relevant
Predestination in the Bible refers to what God does towards his own, not wehat he does with the lost!
Well predestination as particulars define it. How convenient.
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