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Calvinists & Arminian Together

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Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
webdog said:
It sits fine with me as it is merely a strawman representation of our beliefs. He knows this...he used to speak out against such juvenile debate. That is what happens when one starts adhering to your doctrine, intellectual dishonesty follows.
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And what is my doctrine?
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
When we argue and debate the intent of whom would be the saved due to the atonement, in house discussion, as BOTH affirm that death of that is a jesus for sins was required in order to have God justify the sinner!

Another Gospel would be one stating that the Cross not required to have God save a sinner, as they can keep the law well enough to merit that!
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No, non-Cals and Arminians preach that Jesus died for ALL men.

Five-point Calvinists preach that Jesus only died for SOME men.

That is not the same message, that is not the same gospel.

One message MUST be error, both cannot be true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ckoCBtXvU
 
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Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Winman said:
No, non-Cals and Arminians preach that Jesus died for ALL men.

Five-point Calvinists preach that Jesus only died for SOME men.

That is not the same message, that is not the same gospel.

One message MUST be error, both cannot be true.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1ckoCBtXvU
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Again, the question in the Gospel is by what nethod does God freely justify the ungodly>

BOTH sides affirm its only thru the death of jesis on the Cross for sins...
The rest is again, in house debate!
 
M

MB

Well-Known Member
convicted1 said:
If God doesn't extend His hand out and allow mankind to say "put'r there, it's a deal", then it's not true salvation. God needs sinners' help to save them. He can't do it alone. The One who spoke this world into existence, who made everything we see before our eyes, gave us physical life...He can do all this, yet can't save one sinner unless they let Him. That's sad. :tear:
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Funny when you were freewill you never would have implied that God needs anyone's help for anything. Now your claiming that this is what freewillers think. Your statement just isn't true no one can be saved with out God's intervention ,and you know it.

Why do you choose to misrepresent what you once were? When you know better
 
W

Winman

Active Member
Yeshua1 said:
Again, the question in the Gospel is by what nethod does God freely justify the ungodly>

BOTH sides affirm its only thru the death of jesis on the Cross for sins...
The rest is again, in house debate!
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No, somebody is outside the house.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yeshua1 said:
So Calvinists are not saved?
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Of course Calvinists are not saved...do you not see that they differ on how "we got here" and "how God done it"? No, brother. Calvinists, Post-mils, anti-CCM, infant baptizers...all of them...how can they be saved? Are you suggesting that correct soteriology does not trump the Gospel in salvation? Scripture is not greater than our own theology...wise up, brother. And then you got all those people who worship on Saturday...you think God saves them???? And some even drink beer, and dance...and listen to ...to ...ROCK music :eek:. I even saw one "Christian" woman wearing jeans (but I didn't look too long). Your problem is that you believe that people are saved by the gospel...by the work of Christ..by God. You ignore our preferences, interpretations, understandings, and opinions all together.
 
W

Winman

Active Member
JonC said:
Of course Calvinists are not saved...do you not see that they differ on how "we got here" and "how God done it"? No, brother. Calvinists, Post-mils, anti-CCM, infant baptizers...all of them...how can they be saved? Are you suggesting that correct soteriology does not trump the Gospel in salvation? Scripture is not greater than our own theology...wise up, brother. And then you got all those people who worship on Saturday...you think God saves them???? And some even drink beer, and dance...and listen to ...to ...ROCK music :eek:. I even saw one "Christian" woman wearing jeans (but I didn't look too long). Your problem is that you believe that people are saved by the gospel...by the work of Christ..by God. You ignore our preferences, interpretations, understandings, and opinions all together.
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All I said is that non-Cals and Calvinists do not preach the same gospel.

And that is absolutely true.
 
JonC

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Winman said:
All I said is that non-Cals and Calvinists do not preach the same gospel.

And that is absolutely true.
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I guess the question is, which ones are going to suffer the cost of a false gospel (which ones are you saying are going to Hell)? Or can one deny the gospel, believe a false one, and be saved?
 
R

Rippon

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reformed said:
In Galatians 1:8-9 Paul was condemning a very specific type of false gospel; the false gospel of the Judaizers. The falseness of their gospel was not a disagreement over election and predestination. It was a works-based righteousness.

Proof is provided in Galatians 2:11-21 when Paul confronted Peter because Peter strayed into the hypocrisy of giving deference to the Jews at the expense of the Gentile brethren. Such was the power of the enormous pressure that was placed on the Galatian church by the Judaizers. Their's was truly a false gospel because it denied the sufficiency of Christ.


Actually Winman became pigeon-holed by his own argument. Instead of humbly admitting he was wrong, he doubled down and all but said that Calvinists are not saved. Predictable, but sad.
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I agreed with your entire post but quoted just the above. He has been off the deep end for quite a while. His suspension did him no good. Mods are not doing their duty.

If winman thinks that the extent of the atonement is critcal in the proclamation of the Gospel so be it. But as he has admitted, he doesn't listen to Calvinist preachers. So how is he to know that a minister of the Gospel in a Calvinistic church pleads for the unregenerate to cast aside their warfare against God? How is he to know they are implored to repent of their sins and believe in the finished work of the cross of Christ?

How is he to know that even an A.W. Pink, in a sermon (I can't track down now from Iain Murray's bio) said something along the lines of "The table is spread, the sacrifice of the Holy Lamb of God has been made. Come, come and avail yourself of the only means of salvation. Behold today is the day of salvation."

How is winman to know? He must have read some of the works of Charles Spurgeon sometime in his Christain life --despite his denials. He would know the truth if he had done the least amount of research.

However, I think he does indeed know. But he has ground himself down in his prejudices and refuses to yield to the facts. He is in the gall of bitterness as the KJV renders it. He won't let go. He is entrenched. Unless the Lord does a work on his heart he will remain in his current condition. For him to back off would require a big dose of humility which he is not about to contemplate. It is just too easy aiming his heterodox guns on Calvinists. It's what he does. He can't conceive of a day where he won't be able to castigate Calvinists. It brings him too much pleasure.
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Reformed said:
I have had Winman blocked for at least six months, so I am mercifully spared from his inane comments. But even when you block someone you can see snippets of their comments when others quote them. I let most stupid comments pass these days, but this matter of preaching a false gospel is just too egregious to ignore.

Is it too much to ask that an adult participant on this board possess even a rudimentary knowledge of the Word of God? There are degrees of error. Not all error imperils the human soul. Some errors logically lead to an imperiled conclusion, but are graciously interrupted by what are called 'happy inconsistencies'. In Galatians 1:8-9 Paul was condemning a very specific type of false gospel; the false gospel of the Judaizers. The falseness of their gospel was not a disagreement over election and predestination. It was a works-based righteousness.

Proof is provided in Galatians 2:11-21 when Paul confronted Peter because Peter strayed into the hypocrisy of giving deference to the Jews at the expense of the Gentile brethren. Such was the power of the enormous pressure that was placed on the Galatian church by the Judaizers. Their's was truly a false gospel because it denied the sufficiency of Christ.


Actually Winman became pigeon-holed by his own argument. Instead of humbly admitting he was wrong, he doubled down and all but said that Calvinists are not saved. Predictable, but sad.
Click to expand...

The word that you really need to use brother is "pathological."
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Rippon said:
I agreed with your entire post but quoted just the above. He has been off the deep end for quite a while. His suspension did him no good. Mods are not doing their duty.

If winman thinks that the extent of the atonement is critcal in the proclamation of the Gospel so be it. But as he has admitted, he doesn't listen to Calvinist preachers. So how is he to know that a minister of the Gospel in a Calvinistic church pleads for the unregenerate to cast aside their warfare against God? How is he to know they are implored to repent of their sins and believe in the finished work of the cross of Christ?

How is he to know that even an A.W. Pink, in a sermon (I can't track down now from Iain Murray's bio) said something along the lines of "The table is spread, the sacrifice of the Holy Lamb of God has been made. Come, come and avail yourself of the only means of salvation. Behold today is the day of salvation."

How is winman to know? He must have read some of the works of Charles Spurgeon sometime in his Christain life --despite his denials. He would know the truth if he had done the least amount of research.

However, I think he does indeed know. But he has ground himself down in his prejudices and refuses to yield to the facts. He is in the gall of bitterness as the KJV renders it. He won't let go. He is entrenched. Unless the Lord does a work on his heart he will remain in his current condition. For him to back off would require a big dose of humility which he is not about to contemplate. It is just too easy aiming his heterodox guns on Calvinists. It's what he does. He can't conceive of a day where he won't be able to castigate Calvinists. It brings him too much pleasure.
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Oh 'humility' --- the ability to see the face of God in the least of your bretheren . I don't know guys, is there an inability to recognizehow He is working in us? Have we lost the ability to touch the flesh as Christ asked Thomas to do?Yes, to get out of our heads and to touch the flesh and know. The problem here is that has happened. Nobody is operating as a CHRISTIAN here any more.....rather we are Calvinists, Non Calvinists, Arminians, Non Arminians....yada yada yada......everything but good Christian bretheren .....and we villify and we denegrate and we cause shame to the cause for Christ. No wonder there are soooo many Agnostics and Aethiest's amongst us! Maybe we have created it by our own disfunctional behavior.
 
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