I again agree with all of that. The reason all of that is true is because even though Christ died for their sins, opened up their hearts to understand the gospel they still rejected Him.
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Calvinists & Arminian Together
- Thread starter evangelist6589
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I again agree with all of that. The reason all of that is true is because even though Christ died for their sins, opened up their hearts to understand the gospel they still rejected Him.
Not if those are the only two possible outcomes. According to the Monergist schema those are the only two possible outcomes. According to the Synergist schema those are not the only two possible outcomes.
O...K... But I still don't think you're getting it.
If Christ died for their sins then their sins will not be held against them. If Christ died for their sins the wrath of God will no longer abide on them. If He died for their sins there will be no more condemnation because they are justified. But these and many other things enjoyed by the elect are not enacted for the non-elect. Can the non-elect claim that there is no longer condemnation for them because they are in Christ? Can they say that no one can bring any charge against them?
These and many more things can not be said of the non-elect.
But God does not open the hearts of some people. He closes and hides the truth from them. Lydia had her heart opened and she responded to Paul's message. Only the elect have their hert opened by the Lord. It cannot be said of the non-elect. Only those who have been appointed for eternal life will believe. And to believe the Lord must open hearts. Only He can make hearts that were once stony into hearts of flesh.
The Lord opens the hearts of some --but not all. He hides the truth from some. Look at Matthew 11:25,26 : At that time Jesus said, 'I praise you Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things freom the wise and learned, and revealed them to littel children. Yes, Father, for this is what you were pleased to do.' (NIV)
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Do you agree that the Lord blinds some people to the truth? Do you agree that He hardens some hearts so that they cannot understand?
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You're a preacher. Is that how you exegete Matthew 11:25,26?
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Of course it helps to consider the companion passage in 1 Cor. 18-31, specifically verses 26-27:
1 Corinthians 1:26-27 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong,
God chooses the elect, not based on any positive act of faith that He sees from them down the corridor of time, but based solely upon the counsel of His own will (Eph. 1:11). The fact that God reveals these things to infants and fools (according to this world) underscores the fact that He reveals them to the helpless, not to those who think they are beyond needing help (Mat. 9:12).
psalms109:31
Active Member
John 5:
Testimonies About Jesus
31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study[Or 39 Study] the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[Some early manuscripts the Only One]?
Luke 11:
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
1 Thessalonians 2:
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[ Or them fully]
John 3:
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
I believe Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees an Sadducee the educated who was suppose to be leading and teaching His people, because of their murdering ways and them hindering the children who are coming, He has hidden the truth from them. They need to be born again.
There is still hope for them!
2 Corinthians 3:
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
Testimonies About Jesus
31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.
33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.
36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study[Or 39 Study] the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.
41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God[Some early manuscripts the Only One]?
Luke 11:
47 “Woe to you, because you build tombs for the prophets, and it was your ancestors who killed them. 48 So you testify that you approve of what your ancestors did; they killed the prophets, and you build their tombs. 49 Because of this, God in his wisdom said, ‘I will send them prophets and apostles, some of whom they will kill and others they will persecute.’ 50 Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood of all the prophets that has been shed since the beginning of the world, 51 from the blood of Abel to the blood of Zechariah, who was killed between the altar and the sanctuary. Yes, I tell you, this generation will be held responsible for it all.
52 “Woe to you experts in the law, because you have taken away the key to knowledge. You yourselves have not entered, and you have hindered those who were entering.”
45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”
1 Thessalonians 2:
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[ Or them fully]
John 3:
10 “You are Israel’s teacher,” said Jesus, “and do you not understand these things?
I believe Jesus was speaking to the Pharisees an Sadducee the educated who was suppose to be leading and teaching His people, because of their murdering ways and them hindering the children who are coming, He has hidden the truth from them. They need to be born again.
There is still hope for them!
2 Corinthians 3:
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to prevent the Israelites from seeing the end of what was passing away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
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I don't know why Calvinist keep repeating this. Did you all cut out the page when Jesus declares ALL sin EXCEPT ONE??????? Unbelief!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is the last time I will tell you this, "I am NOT a Calvinist!"
And your icon is going : Grrr...
You have seen my theological stance....I will concede Monergist, Radical Christian, Doctrines of Grace soterology & that's about it fellas. :tongue3:
How is any of that different from Calvinism?
What did Calvin teach?
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