Calvinists: Best Argument?

sure...

Romans 10:22

 

Oh, wow....now I'm convinced.

 

jc, did you notice, that verse doesn't exist? Hency JArthur's response is "it doesn't exist".

 

Yes, I did notice....i just didn't want to ruin his fun so quickly.

 

I am a firm believer in original sin, but we must put it in its place. Did not Christ come to take away the sin of the world? What was the sin of the world? What Christ came to do He accomplished.
Now, sin is sown in our members, it is always present. But through Christ, until we trespass the law of God, we are not held accountable. An example of this would be a child. They sin but it is not held against them. Paul did not know sin but by the law, so until the law is spoken to a person, they are an alive spirit. True Calvinism says you are born spiritually dead. Ultimately, when the law is spoken to you, then you die spiritually.

I think a wonderful natural illustration of salvation can be seen when Moses led Israel out of Egypt. I will be brief because it could take multiple hours to look at it closely.
When they went to the sea, they could do nothing, but God provided the way. When they got to the otherside, the water closed the path back. They had not reached the promissed land yet, but they could not return to bondage either.
Now during all this, Israel had a responsibility to trust God and act on what He said. They had to walk the path God provided them. They had to do it!
Now, if I was in prison and the warden offered me a pardon, I would not think twice about taking it. If I was trapped in an alley and an army was coming at me to kill me, and a way was shown for me to escape unharmed, again, I am taking it.
Maybe some people would rather stay in prison or fight to the death, all I can say is, when it (God's grace) was shown to me, I could not resist. I guess you could say, He made me an offer I could not refuse :laugh:
One thing is certain, until God shines the light, man is completely unable to come to it. When God removes the light for good, man is sealed to an unfavorable fate. This within itself disproves man's free will (For me). If a man had true free will, he could come whenever he freely chooses to with no help from God. He could create his own path to safety (Many try it that way).

Now the big question I have is this. If a man is standing at the beach and Pharaoh and his army is coming after you and a way is provided to escape the wrath to come, who would stay, fight and die? If the same path is opened to every person, how can so many more choose to stay rather than accept the only way to life? If everyone was born with eyes to see with, could see, but then went blind. And someone came to everyperson and offered the ability to see again, how many would turn them down?
If the Bible taught that most would go to heaven and only a few would not, I could better understand man's free will better. Man is always looking for the bigger and better deal for himself. If he was truly able see this, he would selfishly take it. Wouldn't he?

 

as to the OP...

Genesis 3-4
Genesis 45
Dan 4...whole chapter
Isa 40 9-24
John Chapter 1, 3, 5
Romans...whole book.
Eph chapters 1,2 and 3

I KINDA LIKE THIS ONE TOO....

Job 33: 16-30

 

:laugh:

Actually, I think you'll find it in First Opinions. :smilewinkgrin:

 

No, try Romans 7:9 for starters.

 

Romans 1:25

 

So, if a person never hears the law, they will remain spiritually alive and are not held accountable? What about all the people who have lived in North America, China, Japan, Austrailia, ect. ect. , thousands of years ago? Was the law spoken to them? I don't think so. So, they were never held accountable for their sin?
Maybe I've misunderstood you.

 

Amy, these are the typical calvinist responses. The law is written on ALL men's hearts. ALL men have the ability to accept or reject the truth...some accept, some "exchange the truth for a lie".

 

Try Matt 19:17

Mat 19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

 

Well, that was kind of my point. We do not remain innocent just because we haven't heard the law.

(Congrats on that precious little baby girl!) :thumbs:

 

Thanks...she's a doll!

I agree we don't remain innocent...we are just born that way.

 

Job 1:8 "Have you considered my servant Job? There is no one on earth like him; he is blameless and upright, a man who fears God and shuns evil"

Scripture taken out of context can say anything

 

So then, the Law "isn't" written on ALL men's hearts. Just men of a certain age. Would you say that "All" doesn't always mean "All"?

 

Webdog, since you say that children are born innocent, would you agree that then Jesus didn't die for them? He wouldn't need to, of course, since they are innocent.

 

What did Jesus mean then when He said no one is good but God?

 

JC,

Children are born with sin, but they are innocent and not held accountable for it. Because Christ paid for it on the cross. They are innocent because of what Christ did, but it is still present.
Paul said he was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and he died.

Amy G.
Earlier I mentioned that:

I do believe that God wrote it in their hearts. Everyone will receive the commandment and if they live long enough, will transgress.

One thing to keep in mind, the audience is adult Christians. The epistles were written to churches and its members.

 

Thanks. I figured that's what you meant.