preacher4truth
Active Member
Agreed!!! What's good for the goose is good for the...
Name calling is one thing, and calling one 'slow' is uncalled for.
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Calvinists help me understand
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Agreed!!! What's good for the goose is good for the...
Name calling is one thing, and calling one 'slow' is uncalled for.
convicted1
Guest
Compare the king of Ninevah's decree with Nebachudnezzar's in Daniel 3. Both kings made a decree that they people obeyed. But that doesn't mean they were "lock-step" with their king. In Daniel, just because they bowed to the golden image doesn't mean they worshipped it, but they didn't want roasted. Sure, some probably did worship it.
The Ninevahites, though they bowed themselves, was no guarantor they repented as the king of Ninevah did. They, as a whole, were not in "lock-step" with their king, but did so to keep from maybe being punished...
The Ninevahites, though they bowed themselves, was no guarantor they repented as the king of Ninevah did. They, as a whole, were not in "lock-step" with their king, but did so to keep from maybe being punished...
Oh ho ah haaaaaaaaa....Finney and Calvin.ahhhhhhh! Don't know when ive laughed sooooo hard:laugh:
Good one brothers! :laugh:
Nineveh was destroyed over 150 years later, not one single person Jonah preached to would have been alive.
Boy, you see false converts everywhere don't you? SNIP
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Yep...they certainly did not fool God into showing mercy. And to what religion did they convert?
This is what I was trying to indicate, John, when you were seeking advice for teaching Jonah. Teach Scripture and not what you would like for it to say. Don't alter Scripture to support your beliefs; build your faith on the Word of God.
No,no. I don't mean it that way at all. I can only believe what the Spirit causes me to believe, correct? I have prayed many times, many times, for the Spirit to show me the Truth. Thus far, He has not convicted me that my position is wrong, nor that TULIP is right, with the exception of the P. So that is why I say, what am I to do? Listen to you, or listen to the Spirit?
There are still some big differences between calvinism and non cals it would seem...
convicted1
Guest
A five-point Arminian is more theologically stable than most non-cals on here. When they aver, "I am not an Arminian", the Arminians say, "Hallelujah, amen!!!"
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
This post--and the one to which I originally responded--contains the logical fallacy of "Begging the question." Your conclusion (your interpretation is Spirit-led) is included in your proposition, when it is entirely possible that your conclusion is wrong. Secondly, when you say "listen to you, or listen to the Spirit" we have another begging of the question. Your premise is that to listen to me would be to turn your back on the Spirit when it is entirely possible that the Spirit may be seeking to illumine your understanding through me.
What is more, there is NO need to discount my interpretation of Jonah because I'm a Calvinist and you're not. There is no fundamental Calvinist or Arminian doctrines either illuminated or discussed in Jonah. So, here again, we have the revelation of another fallacy: Poisoning the well. You begin with the assumption that no Calvinist can clearly read or interpret scripture, hence the Calvinist's well is poisoned.
So, your question begging reveals much in your logical processes. So, you may not mean it that way, but you are saying it that way. It may be that you are saying what you mean. If you don't mean it that way, you'll say it another way.
The Archangel
Do we have any real Arminians here posting on the BB?
Seems to be mainly:
Reformed Baptists
Calvinist Baptists
Non Cals
That does seem to one of the common complaints here, as some seem to hold that if one is a calvinist, or a non cal, that they have nothing worth reading....
Think that we can glean and learn from each other though, as none of us can claim to have "all the truth exactly right"
Think that we can glean and learn from each other though, as none of us can claim to have "all the truth exactly right"
If they were false converts then they did fool God, because God repented of destroying the city. :laugh:
And the P isn't right either, unless you think you must persevere in good works to be saved.
I am not persevering, I am not enduring to the end, I am "preserved". HUGE difference.
You figured that out all by yourself?
Baloney, most Arminians believe a person can lose or forfeit their salvation, and this is the primary reason most "non-Cals" here at BB do not identify with being an Arminian.
I do not believe you can lose your salvation, but I do not believe in Perseverance of the Saints, which is nothing but works salvation in my opinion. No, I am Preserved in Christ, he is keeping me, and that is why I cannot be lost. I am not saved because I am or will always be faithful to Jesus, I am saved because Jesus will always be faithful to me.
This is far different from Perseverance which both Calvinists and Arminians believe that requires that a person persevere in good works to be saved. Again, that is nothing but works salvation in my opinion.
And how would you know what the Arminians say?
preacher4truth
Active Member
No. All true Arminians believe they can lose salvation. If they don't believe in this they are not true Arminians.
You don't understand perseverance of the saints and are, in fact, a 'four point' Arminian and in today's understanding Pelagian in 'theology' which is well documented here on BB.
No one here preaches a person must do good works TO be saved. In that you're incorrect. What we do believe is that a truly converted person will persevere because of the seed of God in them (note 1 John 3:10ff) and they do not believe their works to be a cause of salvation but a reflection of salvation.
That said you'd have nothing to do if it weren't for the straw man arguments that you erect and beat on.
That is not true, the original Arminians said they were not completely sure on this subject.
I might be a four point Arminian, but I am not Pelagian. In fact, Pelagius was not a Pelagian. When a Calvinist says a person is a Pelagian, they mean that person believes they can come to God without God's grace. Pelagius DID NOT believe that, and I certainly do not believe that.
Now, that said, I consider God's Word and preachers who preach his Word to be God's grace. If God did not reveal his Word to ancient prophets, we would all be in darkness and utterly doomed. You cannot believe in Jesus if you have never heard of him.
And I believe the Word of God has the power to pierce to the very core of a man's heart and convict him as a sinner, and to enlighten him to understand salvation by faith in Christ.
But I believe a man has to listen and learn from God's word to be saved (John 6:45). I do not believe God "zaps" you with faith as Calvinism teaches.
No one here preaches a person must do good works TO be saved. In that you're incorrect. What we do believe is that a truly converted person will persevere because of the seed of God in them (note 1 John 3:10ff) and they do not believe their works to be a cause of salvation but a reflection of salvation.
That said you'd have nothing to do if it weren't for the straw man arguments that you erect and beat on.
Right, no one preaches you have to do good works to be saved, but if a person does not do good works you do not believe he is saved.
Who are you kidding?
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