Calvinists help me understand

[preacher4truth]

That is not true, the original Arminians said they were not completely sure on this subject.

Agreed which makes their error more glaring IMO.

I might be a four point Arminian, but I am not Pelagian. In fact, Pelagius was not a Pelagian. When a Calvinist says a person is a Pelagian, the mean that person believes they can come to God without God's grace. Pelagius DID NOT believe that, and I certainly do not believe it.

Your a solid Pelagian. (an oxymoron, I know). But you are, your track record and teaching proves this.

Now, that said, I consider God's Word and preachers who preach his Word to be God's grace. If God did not reveal his Word to ancient prophets, we would all be in darkness and utterly doomed. You cannot believe in Jesus if you have never heard of him.

Minus Calvinists of course.

And I believe the Word of God has the power to pierce to the very core of a man's heart and convict him as a sinner, and to enlighten him to understand salvation by faith in Christ.

But I believe a man has to listen and learn from God's word to be saved (John 6:45). I do not believe God "zaps" you with faith as Calvinism teaches.

You've failed in the doctrine of sin here many times. You're in error. You're Pelagian.

Right, no one preaches you have to do good works to be saved, but if a person does not do good works you do not believe he is saved.

Who are you kidding?

Wrong. You've just preached others do say this in your prior post. If I asked you 'Who are you kidding?' the answer would be yourself.

BTW, if a person does not do good works, they are in fact not born from above. You preach they are. Christ denies your false teaching.

 

[kyredneck]

...They would both agree on the eternal destiny of each and every man throughout history.

Then the would get all caught up in the philosophy if how it all works out, and they would forget all about the fact that they agree.

...In the end those who are found in Christ are saved....all agree on that. It's the how and why that causes friction.

How? Both have made the same mistake as the Jews and hold to gospel regeneration:

Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5:39

As a result both hold to the same doctrine of hardline restrictivism as the Jews:

...this multitude that knoweth not the gospel are accursed. Jn 7:49

Why? This is where the distinction between the two is made:

Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

 

[preacher4truth]

Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

Amen!

Which shows the dilemma and fallacy of Nicodemus, yet we have many who follow his same pattern of error, which is pelagianism and other dissident belief systems that rest squarely on the shoulders of men, and not upon God Himself.

 

[Winman]

Agreed which makes their error more glaring IMO.

Why don't you just admit you were wrong.

Your a solid Pelagian. (an oxymoron, I know). But you are, your track record and teaching proves this.

Pelagius wasn't a Pelagian. A Pelagian is a non-existent "Boogie Man" Calvinists made up to keep the "faithful" in line. The Catholics have used scare tactics like this to keep folks in line for centuries. As the mother, so the daughter.

Minus Calvinists of course.

Thou hast said

You've failed in the doctrine of sin here many times. You're in error. You're Pelagian.

I am not a Pelagian and you know it. But I will say this, I would rather be called a Pelagian than a Calvinist.

Wrong. You've just preached others do say this in your prior post. If I asked you 'Who are you kidding?' the answer would be yourself.

BTW, if a person does not do good works, they are in fact not born from above. You preach they are. Christ denies your false teaching.

I preach that a person who believes on Jesus Christ to save them is born again.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I preach that a person who believes on Jesus Christ to save them is born again.

Excuse me but "do you preach or do you teach?"

 

[preacher4truth]

Why don't you just admit you were wrong.

Because I am not. They all believe it possible, if not they are not truly Arminian.

Pelagius wasn't a Pelagian. A Pelagian is a non-existent "Boogie Man" Calvinists made up to keep the "faithful" in line. The Catholics have used scare tactics like this to keep folks in line for centuries. As the mother, so the daughter.

You're a Pelagian in every sense of its meaning today. Your teachings are dissident.

And there you have it, you, a Pelagian calling alleged Calvinists lost, or, children of the great whore.

I am not a Pelagian and you know it. But I will say this, I would rather be called a Pelagian than a Calvinist.

Exactly. Most of us know you'd rather side with error than with truth. This shows more than anything you're Pelagian in doctrine. Your track record here shows you in grave error.

I preach that a person who believes on Jesus Christ to save them is born again.

Of course you do -- you popishly declare heaven their home because they've made mental assent to facts. Contrarily the Holy Spirit via Scripture shows what true conversion really is. You do greatly err as you preach easy believism convincing others they are guaranteed heaven while Scripture shows what a true believer is and what an impostor is.

 

[Winman]

Give it up, you are trying too hard.

 

[kyredneck]

:thumbs::applause: God had several purposes in this book and the subsequent Nt application.

the fact that God prepared the fish and God prepared a gourd, a strong wind, and a worm as well as His Over-ruling providence are some of the many lessons to be learned about the Absolute sovereignty of God.....


Now the word of the Lord came unto Jonah

But Jonah rose up to flee

from the presence of the Lord


But the Lord sent out a great wind into the sea


Now the Lord had prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah. And Jonah was in the belly of the fish three days and three nights.


Then Jonah prayed


And the Lord spake unto the fish, and it vomited out Jonah



the word of the Lord came unto Jonah the second time


2 Arise, go unto Nineveh, that great city, and preach unto it the preaching that I bid thee

So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth,


Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?

But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry.


And the Lord God prepared a gourd

and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd.

7 But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.


that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun beat upon the head of Jonah





9 And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death.

10 Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night:

11 And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?


This lesson in part also spoke of the failure of Israel as a nation to reach the gentiles worldwide..... God was in control from start to finish as always:thumbs:

:thumbsup: Good post Icon.

 

[kyredneck]

The thread killer has returned.....it was nice while it lasted.....This is about a temporary mercy used by God to illustrate several things...the city was later destroyed. But with your agenda ...you ignore the whole book to disrupt the whole thread as usual:laugh: You never address the main concerns...you just look to disrupt:sleeping_2:

:thumbsup: Another good post Icon. He's rather like an 'adolescent attention seeker', don't you think?

 

[Reformed]

:thumbsup: Another good post Icon. He's rather like an 'adolescent attention seeker', don't you think?

He's only a thread killer if you can read his posts. Thankfully I cannot.

 

[kyredneck]

What makes it annoying is....there are many people who have real questions that are seeking real answers that get pushed aside by the few that only disrupt each and every thread. We could all make progress and grow '

In this thread...Reformed very carefully walks Steaver through his questions
provides answers, and steaver as his objections are shot down,tries to circle around and play word games.

He is yet another 'adolescent attention seeker'.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:thumbsup: Another good post Icon. He's rather like an 'adolescent attention seeker', don't you think?

And so you vilify him because he said what he believes?

Now I don't agree with the man -- he still is in rebellion, but he has his reasons for being so (valid or invalid) ... so keep working with him....remember Willis and Amy:love2::love2:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

He's only a thread killer if you can read his posts. Thankfully I cannot.

With all due respect....I view him as a work in progress.

 

[evangelist6589]

Give it up, you are trying too hard.

Actually he hit the nail right on the head about you. You love easy-believism, deny the Lordship of Christ, and sometimes I wonder if you believe in a literal Hell that will burn forever. Do you?

You also need to re-read the book of James especially James 2:24.

 

[convicted1]

Brother John, I found this and think it might help you as you study this out further:

The focus of Jonah, however, is on the prophet and his reactions to these situations. We see his emotions: denial, avoidance, dismay, resignation, fear, despair, humility, boldness, disbelief, anger, hopelessness, and perplexity. He is overwhelmed by what God wants him to do, uncertain about how it will affect him, driven relentlessly by God's will, and at a total loss about what it all means! Through his experiences, Jonah comes to realize, "How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!" (Romans 11:33). The reader leaves him as he sits outside Nineveh, bewildered and contemplating his incomprehensible God.

Jonah provides one of the most significant and recognizable Messianic prophecies in the Old Testament. Jesus Himself refers to it in Matthew 12:40: "For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." It is the only sign Jesus gave to prove that He was the Christ, a sign that was completely out of His ability to control since He would be dead. The Father Himself would have to intervene to raise His Son from the dead. Thus, Jesus puts His stamp of approval on this often-mocked book.


Richard T. Ritenbaugh
Meet the Minor Prophets (Part Two)

I hope this helps.

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/7718/Jonah.htm


I cut and pasted this from the goof I made posting it erroreously in another thread....Brother KYR showed me my gaffe...:saint:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Brother John, I found this and think it might help you as you study this out further:






I hope this helps.

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/7718/Jonah.htm


I cut and pasted this from the goof I made posting it erroreously in another thread....Brother KYR showed me my gaffe...:saint:

I liked that...thanks Willis:applause:

 

[kyredneck]

Brother John, I found this and think it might help you as you study this out further:

I hope this helps.

http://www.bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Topical.show/RTD/CGG/ID/7718/Jonah.htm


I cut and pasted this from the goof I made posting it erroreously in another thread....Brother KYR showed me my gaffe...:saint:

Don't be bashful Willis, show him the rest! It was good! Never mind, I'll do it:

Plus, Brother John, you can see Jonah used as an OT picture of Christ to come later on...


-- He was in the whale's belly 3 days and nights....
-- Jesus was in the tomb for 3 days and nights...
-- Jonah fell asleep in the bottom of the ship...
-- Jesus fell asleep in the bottom of the ship...
-- Jonah had some people wake him afraid they would perish...
-- Jesus had some people wake Him afraid they would perish...
-- Jonah cried out, feeling like he was left alone...
-- Jesus cried out, feeling like He was left alone...


Now, Jonah did things that Jesus would have never did, but you can see Jonah as an OT picture of Christ. Jesus even referenced Jonah's whale experience as a sign of what would happen to Him...Matthew 12:40 and Luke 11:29...

That's pretty good Willis. I believe the type goes still deeper yet on the same 'rule of type' as Adam being a figure of Christ:

...the likeness of Adam`s transgression, who is a figure of him that was to come. But not as the trespass, so also is the free gift... Ro 5:14-15

For instance a couple:

Jonah attempted to shirk his call to duty
Christ was obedient even unto death

Jonah preached clearly
Christ taught in parables

Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah and was spared.
'That generation' did not repent at the preaching of Christ and was utterly destroyed.

...and there's so much more that could be mined from that story.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Don't be bashful Willis, show him the rest! It was good! Never mind, I'll do it:

There ya go... Thanks Larry.

 

[Yeshua1]

How? Both have made the same mistake as the Jews and hold to gospel regeneration:

Ye search the scriptures, because ye think that in them ye have eternal life; and these are they which bear witness of me; Jn 5:39

As a result both hold to the same doctrine of hardline restrictivism as the Jews:

...this multitude that knoweth not the gospel are accursed. Jn 7:49

Why? This is where the distinction between the two is made:

Synergism: the doctrine that the human will cooperates with the Holy Ghost in the work of regeneration.

Monergism: the doctrine that the Holy Ghost acts independently of the human will in the work of regeneration.

Just a question:

Is a sinner receiving Jesus thru.by faith a work of God, or a "good work" by your understanding?

 

[Yeshua1]

Actually he hit the nail right on the head about you. You love easy-believism, deny the Lordship of Christ, and sometimes I wonder if you believe in a literal Hell that will burn forever. Do you?

You also need to re-read the book of James especially James 2:24.

It all depends on how you define 'easy believing/lordship of Christ!"