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Can a believer sin?

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Brother Bob

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That's about unbelievers, not believers with unconfessed sin.

I'll put it this way. I guarantee you and I will die with unconfessed sin. You can object to that all you like, here, but I'll accept your apology in heaven. ;)
That is for all people and someone committing such acts are the unsaved, the unbelievers. I don't care how much they say they are saved.

If you die with one of the listed sins above still against you, good luck before the GWT.

Or do you believe salvation is a license to sin?
 

TCGreek

New Member
npetreley said:
That's about unbelievers, not believers with unconfessed sin.

I'll put it this way. I guarantee you and I will die with unconfessed sin. You can object to that all you like, here, but I'll accept your apology in heaven. ;)

1. Npetreley, if it weren't for the grace of God none of us would make it. Period.

2. Am I aware of every sin that I have committed? What about that adultery in my heart that My Lord spoke about (Matt. 5).

3. I didn't go under the sheets, but I lusted. Are we forgetting this aspect of adultery? Salvation is truly of the Lord, Bob, or none would be saved.
 
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npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Or do you believe salvation is a license to sin?

So there's no third option? Either we have to die with no unconfessed sins, or else salvation is a license to sin? You're beginning to sound like the ME folks.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
1. Npetreley, if it weren't for the grace of God none of us would make. Period.

2. Am I aware of every sin that I have committed? What about that adultery in my heart that My Lord spoke about (Matt. 5).

3. I didn't go under the sheets, but I lusted. Are we forgetting this aspect of adultery? Salvation is truly of the Lord, Bob, or none would be saved.

So you are saying that Paul spoke a bunch of hogwash below, or would you remove the "not"?

1 Corth 6:
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
__________________
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
So there's no third option? Either we have to die with no unconfessed sins, or else salvation is a license to sin? You're beginning to sound like the ME folks.
You got scripture for third option? I never heard of anything but repentance or lost.
 

Rufus_1611

New Member
npetreley said:
That's about unbelievers, not believers with unconfessed sin.

I'll put it this way. I guarantee you and I will die with unconfessed sin. You can object to that all you like, here, but I'll accept your apology in heaven. ;)
1 Corinthians 6 is an epistle written from a Christian to a Christian church. Verses 9 and 10 are warnings to Christians to stop misbehaving, for if they continue in their unrighteousness, there will be a consequence.

"Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God." - 1 Corinthians 6:8-10​

Good behaviors = Good consequences
Bad behaviors = Bad consequences
 

TCGreek

New Member
Brother Bob said:
So you are saying that Paul spoke a bunch of hogwash below, or would you remove the "not"?

1 Corth 6:
9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10: Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
__________________

One question: Do you sin, Bob?
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Anything that is not of faith is sin. Many times it what I do not do.
Sometimes I doubt. Sometimes I speak when I should been listening. sometime I fail to visit the sick. Many sins, too many to start listing, but I do not lust, commit adultery, lie, steal, kill, worship idols, dishonor my father and mother, covet my neighbors wife etc.
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Yes, I sin a sin that is not unto death, as Jesus said some of us will do. I don't lust as you say you do.
I was going to post some 1 John as "third option" but even you admit you sin. Is it so far-fetched to you that you might actually die with some of that sin going unconfessed? What about the sin in your life you do not know about?

Now, if you can bring yourself to admit you may die with unconfessed sin, then does that mean you had a license to sin? If there are only two options, you don't have a choice with your answer. Either you die without any unconfessed sin, or else you had a license to commit any sin you like. That's the world you live in, not my world.
 

TCGreek

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Yes, I sin a sin that is not unto death, as Jesus said some of us will do. I don't lust as you say you do.

1. I thank God that you are one of the few men I know that have overcome the sin of lust.

2. The others are dead, and I really don't know if they truly overcame, except by virtue of death.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
1. I thank God that you are one of the few men I know that have overcome the sin of lust.

2. The others are dead, and I really don't know if they truly overcame, except by virtue of death.__________________
Maybe you are calling something that is not, lust? Did you actually look upon a women and undress her in your mind and want to have her? That is the lust the Lord was speaking of.
 

TCGreek

New Member
Brother Bob said:
Maybe you are calling something that is not, lust? Did you actually look upon a women and undress her in your mind and want to have her? That is the lust the Lord was speaking of.

I am a 31yr old pastor who is not ashamed to say that I have struggled with what My Lord described in Matthew 5.
 

bound

New Member
James_Newman said:
But belief is not an action. Salvation is a 'work of faith'? I have never read that in the bible. I don't think I said claiming you believed was how to be saved, but merely believing is all that is required.

To believe is an 'act of the will'. Yes it 'is an action'.

If we are "saved by grace through faith" the 'working agent' is 'faith' (i.e. Work of Faith).

Since you 'believing' offers no evidence it isn't provable... thus it must be considered 'a claim' regardless.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
I am a 31yr old pastor who is not ashamed to say that I have struggled with what My Lord described in Matthew 5.__________________
I understand its a hard thing, so is lying and many of the others, but that is why God's Grace continues with us to keep us. When the moment is at hand, you just have to move on and ask God to help, and He will, He said "I will never leave you" so when it happens, the Lord is right there with you to give enough Grace sufficient for you to overcome. That what it means when it says, your faith shall be tried. I guess it much easier for me now, but I was a Pastor at about your age, I am now 68 and of course I don't struggle as you have to, but you can do it.

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

To think a woman is pretty is not lust.

I think some are ugly, is that unlust?
 
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Brother Bob

New Member
I was going to post some 1 John as "third option" but even you admit you sin. Is it so far-fetched to you that you might actually die with some of that sin going unconfessed? What about the sin in your life you do not know about?

Now, if you can bring yourself to admit you may die with unconfessed sin, then does that mean you had a license to sin? If there are only two options, you don't have a choice with your answer. Either you die without any unconfessed sin, or else you had a license to commit any sin you like. That's the world you live in, not my world.
I have a Lord that never leaves me and knows everything I do. He also chastises me for everyone of those sins, so I be not condemned with the world. So I have to put all my trust in Him that He will keep His word and deliver me without spot or blemish.

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Brother Bob

New Member
Originally Posted by Brother Bob
Are you saying "defective verb" equals aorist? Or am I misreading you?
You are misreading me. A so-called "defective verb" does not have all the tenses normally associated with Greek verbs, or is irregular, in some other way. That is all that means. I stated, if you read my post, as opposed to just scanning it hoping for an 'opening', that the imperfect was the closest approximation and stood in the stead of the aorist, although I did not word it exactly that way.

An English example of an irregular verb is "to set"; anothter is "to be". In fact, many more verbs in English are "irregular" than are "irregular" in Greek.

Ed

Today Hank Aaron can say that "I am the greatest home run hitter ".

He broke Babe's record several years ago, but he still can say today "I am the greatest".

Apostle Paul persecuted Jesus Christ and His church and Paul in present tense said of sinners, "of whom I am chief". Paul felt no one had broke his record back when he persecuted Jesus Christ and the Church.
 

EdSutton

New Member
Brother Bob said:
EdSutton said:
DHK said:
Please Bob don't take anything personal. i was writing as objectively as possible using the word "you" generically, meaning anyone, not you personally.
I use the sin of
adultery as an example because I know that it is a horrid sin in the eyes of most here. Your definition of a sin unto death and my definition of the same are quite a bit different. Adultery is not a "sin unto death," and one cannot prove it to be so. Perhaps another thread should be started on "sin unto death" or even a bit broader as "types of sin." But adultery does not fall there. Adultery is the same as lying. It is a transgression of the law. They are both breaking the Ten Commandments. So what is the difference in God's sight? None. It is just as bad to die with an unconfessed lie as it is to die with unconfessed adultery or in the act of adultery. What is the difference?
My sins are paid for. They were paid for at the time of salvation. They are under the blood. The minute I put conditions on the work of Christ--like saying that the sin must be confessed before I die, then I take away from grace, and my faith turns into a religion of works. It is no more of grace but of works. One cannot impose conditions on the salvation that Christ provided without any conditions.
Well said, Preach on!

Ed
This is all I could find with a quick search of you amening it.
Uh, Bob, I "amened" the post by DHK, not adultery. And I "amened" that all sins are paid for, not just some sins. as you seem to put forth. And I "amened" that adultery is not stated in Scripture to be "a sin unto death", for that sin, is in fact, not specified, only that such a "sin unto death" exists. But nowhere is it named as to what it is. BTW, I have made that point now, at least four times on these pages.

I am happy for you, in that you have this advanced revelation, as to what is a "sin unto death" . Apparently, the Holy Spirit chose only you to receive it, for I do not find it written in any of HIS pages of Scripture. :rolleyes:

One cannot "impose" any conditions on the salvation that Christ provided without any conditions. So I'll "Amen" that, as well. In fact, I'll say that twice more. "Amen and Amen!"

Salvation is without price, to us. That's what "free' means.

1 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price. (Isa. 55:1 NKJV)
The price has long since been paid, for me, in and by the precious blood of the Lamb. Salvation, to and for me is Absolutely Free!

It is not that it is "Free" unless I commit any of certain sins, in which case I forfeit it, or never "really truly, geniunely believed" and thus never had it in the first place. Nor is it "free", but... For that is not free or "by grace" at all, is it? That is "conditional salvation".

I am absolutely astounded at the number of people I encounter who 'want' 'conditional' salvation, but 'free' discipleship. That has it exactly backwards.

Ed
 

npetreley

New Member
Brother Bob said:
I have a Lord that never leaves me and knows everything I do. He also chastises me for everyone of those sins, so I be not condemned with the world. So I have to put all my trust in Him that He will keep His word and deliver me without spot or blemish.

1Th 5:23 ¶ And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and [I pray God] your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I can't argue with any of this. I agree.
 
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