Does this mean you don't care to take up the challenge?
Until you do, what you have charged me with will be seen as a falsehood.
God bless.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
Can a Born Again Christian lose thei salvation?
- Thread starter Robert William
- Start date
- Status
Does this mean you don't care to take up the challenge?
Until you do, what you have charged me with will be seen as a falsehood.
God bless.
salzer mtn
Well-Known Member
Posted by Scarlett O. {In Christ, we are new creatures. Not just altered or "cleaned up", but a totally new creation. The Bible says that in Christ, the old creature is "gone". A butterfly cannot be transformed back into a caterpillar. Once Christ has made us a completely new creature, it is impossible for the old to come back. End Of quote} If by the old creature you mean the old man or our sinful nature is gone, I disagree. As long as we are in this body of flesh there will be a warfare.
Last edited by a moderator:
Curious as to how you interpret this verse :
Revelation 3:5 NKJV
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Seems to say God does have Wite-Out.
Last edited by a moderator:
In Johannine literature "overcoming" is synonymous with being saved:
1 John 5:1-5
King James Version (KJV)
5 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.
2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?
We are born again through believing on Christ. Our faith is the victory that overcomes the world. He who overcomes is he that believes on Christ.
If one is saved, the Lord promises here He will never blot them out. And while this is from a different Book, we know the Lord is not saying He will not blot out those that fail to do works.
The interesting thing is that the lost's names are in there.
God bless.
Last edited by a moderator:
BrotherJoseph
Well-Known Member
Brother Rebel,
Another passage Hewey uses to support his notion that a child of God may not persevere until the end is Hebrews 10:26. Admittedly, on the surface this is a hard passage to understand and I can see how some can wrongfully interpret it to be speaking of a child of grace permanently falling away and losing his salvation.
The passage in context states, "26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
Notice verse 27, the person who commits this act possesses a "certain fearful looking for of of judgment", thus this person cannot be one who has become unsaved seeing it is distinctly declared in the Scriptures of the unsaved, "The transgression of the wicked saith within my heart, that there is no fear of God before his eyes" (Psalm 36:1). Further to contend that the text involves the doctrine of falling from grace does not hold up seeing that in the same chapter it is declared, that Christ "has by one offering perfected forever them that are sanctified", and the Eternal God has declared concerning them, in this same connection, “I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; and their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.”
So if the passage is not referring to losing salvation, what is it referring to? The verse right before Hebrews 10:26, tells us "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; ..." (Hebrews 10:25). This it is when a child of God church member willfully ceases the attendance of the assembly of believers (i.e. church). The very next verse says, " For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth..."As the forsaking the assembling of ourselves together is named in the immediate context, this particular sin as an example of sinning willfully. The Christian who absents himself from the assembling of the church, either does it willfully, if he absents himself by choice, having the ability and not the disposition, he sins willfully; and if he be a child of God, it is "after he has received a knowledge of the truth" as he is a member of the church.
What "sorer punishment" does remain for such a person who neglects willfully neglects the gathering of the saints after having knowledge of the truth? Not a burning hell, nor a separation from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus, nor can he possibly lose his interest in the atoning blood once offered for him by our great High Priest. These he cannot possibly lose; for Christ has said of all his sheep for whom he laid down his life, “I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall any pluck them out of my hand. My Father which gave them me is greater than all; and none shall be able to pluck them out of my Father’s hands. I, and my Father are one.” But still there is something that remains for this willful transgressor,There remains for him “a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.” He who has received a knowledge of the truth, knows his God too well to believe that his willful transgressions will go unchastised. He knows full well that God will judge his people, but it is in this life, not in Hell afterwards for the same book of Hebrews explicitly tells us, "7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons." (Hebrews 12:7-8)
Does this interpretation make sense to you brother Rebel in light of the context and as compared to the rest of the Bible?
God bless,
Brother Joe
Per my study, I do see that there are two separate books. One is the book in which all names that ever lived are inscribed. The other is the book into which those who have called upon Jesus to save them is inscribed.
Now, if you choose to believe they are the same book(s) that is something you have to work out between you and your God. I, however, know what I believe, and it is what is described in the above link, and more importantly, the Bible.
Now I am curious as to what you choose to believe? :flower:
OneDayCloser
New Member
"For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable" (Romans 11:29).
Salvation is a gift from God. God is not obligated to grant a person salvation when such person refuses God's gift of eternal life. After all, God's Kingdom would be a very miserable place for somebody who doesn't want to be there, right?
Salvation is a gift from God. God is not obligated to grant a person salvation when such person refuses God's gift of eternal life. After all, God's Kingdom would be a very miserable place for somebody who doesn't want to be there, right?
Question for you. Are you saying there will be other people saved or regenerated beyond the predestined elect??
The word has already done that for me.
On the contrary, the Word has never led anyone to slander and present falsehoods about someone else.
You charge me with embracing free will, so either show how I embrace free will or admit that your motive was simply malicious.
God bless.
If I'm wrong I will publically repent of accusing you of being a free willy.
Ok, please let me ask you a question to determine whether or not you are a free willy?
Does regeneration precede faith? or Is a person born again before they by faith embraces the gospel?
No. And that is where your doctrine errs, because you ignore the numerous passages which make it clear men are not held without excuse when they reject Christ.
2 Peter 2:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Your pseudo-Calvinism is as atrocious as the Arminian error.
And all because you spend more time espousing your dislike of people than you do in study of God's Word.
Now, you have not met the burden you have put yourself under through your malice, and still have the responsibility of vindicating your slander and showing it was not slander: quote me and show how I teach free will.
God bless.
Thinking Thinking
C'mon, you don't really expect me to believe that, do you?
Now deal with why I said no.
I am indeed free, but my liberty is in Christ.
1 Peter 3:16
King James Version (KJV)
16 Having a good conscience; that, whereas they speak evil of you, as of evildoers, they may be ashamed that falsely accuse your good conversation in Christ.
Now stop the evasion and respond to the challenge you have been given.
Nothing in my response that suggests free will, but the Sovereign power of God unto salvation.
You can begin by showing how these...
2 Peter 2:20-21
King James Version (KJV)
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
...had not received the knowledge of the truth. That they did not know the way of righteousness.
Then you can show how you are right and Christ, Peter, and Jude are wrong.
Think. Think. Think.
Think how you are going to debunk the truth and replace it in the expression of your belief in the free will being displayed in your posts.
God bless.
Last edited by a moderator:
They were never Born Again.
1Jn 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Agreed. Now did they have the knowledge of the truth, did they reject the way of righteousness, or had they never heard?
God bless.
Because they were not good soil or not Born from Above they rejected everything. They were superficial Lord Lord types.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
We know they rejected the truth, Robert, that is not the point.
The point is that they, the non-Elect without question, had received the knowledge of the truth, which many here deny God gives to the non-Elect.
How that is relevant to free will and re-generational faith is that while men are under conviction they are supernaturally enlightened to believe the Gospel. It is during this conviction they respond to the Gospel or reject it.
And that has nothing to do with their natural condition, it has to do with the...
...love of God.
What we see in this verse and numerous others is that natural man has no free will. His nature is not one of choiuce, he is fully depraved because he is separated from God and cannot understand the spiritual things of God. To say that God has to regenerate a man before he can place saving faith in Christ means only one thing...salvation can be lost. And that is exactly what most Arminians do with texts like the one above and others. They say, "See! Says right there they were saved! Can't understand the Gospel without having the Spirit!"
And we know that is error.
It is the Ministry of the Comforter that allows natural man to be rescued, and a choice is nowhere to be seen in a response to that convicting ministry. It is true a man must have the Spirit to be saved only in the sense that he is dependent on the Spirit enlightening his natural mind to understand the Gospel.
Men no more "freely choose" to be saved than they "freely choose" to sin.
But I forgive you your slander. I know that ye did it in ignorance.
God bless.
- Status