Can a Christian sin?

[DHK]

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
--The word "propitiation" means "satisfaction." It is a legal term. The demands of God were legally satisfied with the blood of Christ.

BBob, Don't quote it if you don't mean it.

Don't you believe that Christ died for the sins of the world. The Bible teaches it; what about you?

 

[Brother Bob]

Don't you believe that Christ died for the sins of the world. The Bible teaches it; what about you?

Yes, if something else takes place, like "believing". You left that part out. :BangHead:

BBob,

 

[DHK]

HP: Now it would seem to me that the verse you quote DHK should raise a red flag in the minds of every honest seeker of truth in light of the position you have taken. Your position is that when Scripture states ‘all sin,’ that it means ‘all past present and future sins’ have been atoned for in a literal sense and that they will never be remembered of the one to which the payment was made. Then you post the following verses. 1 John 2:1-2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

HP: If your theory is correct one would be forced to conclude that God has forgotten the sins of every living person, never to be remembered again. Tell us how you can avoid that completely logical conclusion from your stated position.

He has--of every living person that has trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. Don't take Scripture out of context. And don't misrepresent what I have said, for that is as good as a lie.

 

[DHK]

Yes, if something else takes place, like "believing". You left that part out. :BangHead:

BBob,

I quoted to you Scripture (1John 2:1,2). I guess you can blame the Apostle John for leaving it out.

 

[Brother Bob]

He has--of every living person that has trusted the Lord Jesus Christ as their Savior. Don't take Scripture out of context. And don't misrepresent what I have said, for that is as good as a lie.

He quoted it exactly like you posted it, don't transfer the blame to him. Why do you not say sometimes I didn't complete what I meant, or I misquoted. Why place the blame somewhere else, when it is squarely on your shoulders.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

He quoted it exactly like you posted it, don't transfer the blame to him. Why do you not say sometimes I didn't complete what I meant, or I misquoted. Why place the blame somewhere else, when it is squarely on your shoulders.

BBob,

I said Christ paid the penalty for all our sins.
I never said that all the world was saved.
Why misrepresent what I have said?

 

[Brother Bob]

I quoted to you Scripture (1John 2:1,2). I guess you can blame the Apostle John for leaving it out.

1John 1, 2, 3 and 4

1: My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:
2: And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
3: And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4: He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

And how do we commit ever sin known unto mankind and Keep His commandments?


Naw, John is way ahead of you.

Bbob,

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: You are talking aobut the sins of the whole world, being legally satisfied with the blood of Christ, read it.

HP: There is not one shred of evidence in God’s Word that the sins of the whole world have been ‘legally satisfied with the blood of Christ.” One cannot logically escape the error of universalism if that was true.

 

[DHK]

HP: There is not one shred of evidence in God’s Word that the sins of the whole world have been ‘legally satisfied with the blood of Christ.” One cannot logically escape the error of universalism if that was true.

Yep, and the Muslims can prove that "that Prophet" was a prophecy concerning Muhammed.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK: You are talking aobut the sins of the whole world, being legally satisfied with the blood of Christ, read it.

HP: I was always under the impression from Scripture that the unsaved had to do something to be forgiven, and that without which that being done no sins would be remitted? I have certainly heard a lot of preachers telling the unsaved that they would have to do something to go to heaven. You don't suppose they all are in error do you?

Does not Scripture tell us that some will die in their sins, showing full well that they have not been forgiven, judicially or otherwise? Scripture also tells us that every sin will in fact be brought up at the judgment, except for those covered by the blood.

If the theory of DHK is correct, and God has judicially paid for the sins of the entire world, and had their sin debt “legally satisfied,” and has as promised ‘forgotten them,’ who is going to stand and accuse the sinner of sin if in fact God stays true to His promise and does not remember that which He paid for?

 

[DHK]

HP: I can either go through your error filled post and answer it, or ask you to go back and read what I have posted, and ask you not to misrepresent (polite word for lie) me in what you post. Consider carefully what you said in the last paragraph of your post. Those are your words about my post. It is not what I said. Do you enjoy misrepresenting other people's positions? It is very dishonest.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

DHK, what I tire of is your personal attacks that accuse me of lying, yet you do not produce one scintilla of evidence that I have lied. I simply asked a question from a logical viewpoint.

Show the list what i have said that in any way has misrepresented your views. Instead of attacking another fellow believer personally, even going to the depths of aligning them with satan, why don't you share with the list the error in the logic or reasoning that I have presented......in a Chrsitian manner please.

Would not your personal attacks be classified as 'defrauding' your brother of the reasonable charity rightfully to be afforded another brother in the Lord? I certainly believe so.

 

[DHK]

HP: I was always under the impression from Scripture that the unsaved had to do something to be forgiven, and that without which that being done no sins would be remitted?

You are under the wrong impression. Salvation is a free gift of God. Salvation is not of works (Eph.2:8,9; Rom.6:23). True Christianity is the only religion in the world wherein a man does not have to work for his salvation; does not have to do something to be saved; it is a gift of God; acquired by faith alone.

I have certainly heard a lot of preachers telling the unsaved that they would have to do something to go to heaven. You don't suppose they all are in error do you?

Yes. Every last one of them are in error. Salvation is a gift. You don't have to do anything for it, but receive it by faith.

Does not Scripture tell us that some will die in their sins, showing full well that they have not been forgiven, judicially or otherwise?

Absolutely.

Scripture also tells us that every sin will in fact be brought up at the judgment, except for those covered by the blood.

Your statement is ambiguous. All the sins of the saved are covered by the blood: all of them: past, present, and future.
But of the unsaved, yes their sins will be brought up at the Great White Throne Judgment, and there will be no believers present there.

If the theory of DHK is correct, and God has judicially paid for the sins of the entire world, and had their sin debt “legally satisfied,” and has as promised ‘forgotten them,’ who is going to stand and accuse the sinner of sin if in fact God stays true to His promise and does not remember that which He paid for?

In this paragraph you have delighted to misrepresent what I have posted previously.
1. I don't have theories. I have quoted to you the Word of God. I can do without your mockery.
2. It is the Bible that says that God has judicially paid for the sins of the entire world and that their sin debt has been legally satisfied. That is the teaching of 1John 2:1. If you don't believe it offer another explanation. The word "propitiation" has a definite meaning--atonement--satisfied (in a legal way). Do some of your own Bible study.

In a previous post I posted four Scriptures that said "God remembered our sin no more." There were four different Scriptures that said that. Do you need more. I could have posted more. Once a person comes to Christ he remembers our sin no more. Or do you call God a liar HP. Is that the case?

As far as the believer is concerned, the one who has trusted Christ, God will never bring his sins up again. They are covered by the blood, never to be remembered again. Why do you take what I have said out of context and misrepresent what I have said. I wasn't speaking of sins after salvation, that is those sins that affect a person's walk with God. After salvation a believers sins are forgiven in respect to salvation. But the believer must still ask forgiveness to maintain a right relationship with the Lord. That has nothing to do with salvation. You are confusing two entirely different subjects.

The blood of Christ covers all sin, all the sin of all the people of all the ages in the world. However it is only efficacious on those who believe. God offers a gift, the gift is salvation. You have the choice to receive or reject it. It is not God's fault if man rejects the offer of salvation that he has provided.

 

[Brother Bob]

You are under the wrong impression. Salvation is a free gift of God. Salvation is not of works (Eph.2:8,9; Rom.6:23). True Christianity is the only religion in the world wherein a man does not have to work for his salvation; does not have to do something to be saved; it is a gift of God; acquired by faith alone.

Yes. Every last one of them are in error. Salvation is a gift. You don't have to do anything for it, but receive it by faith.

Absolutely.

Your statement is ambiguous. All the sins of the saved are covered by the blood: all of them: past, present, and future.
But of the unsaved, yes their sins will be brought up at the Great White Throne Judgment, and there will be no believers present there.


In this paragraph you have delighted to misrepresent what I have posted previously.
1. I don't have theories. I have quoted to you the Word of God. I can do without your mockery.
2. It is the Bible that says that God has judicially paid for the sins of the entire world and that their sin debt has been legally satisfied. That is the teaching of 1John 2:1. If you don't believe it offer another explanation. The word "propitiation" has a definite meaning--atonement--satisfied (in a legal way). Do some of your own Bible study.

In a previous post I posted four Scriptures that said "God remembered our sin no more." There were four different Scriptures that said that. Do you need more. I could have posted more. Once a person comes to Christ he remembers our sin no more. Or do you call God a liar HP. Is that the case?

As far as the believer is concerned, the one who has trusted Christ, God will never bring his sins up again. They are covered by the blood, never to be remembered again. Why do you take what I have said out of context and misrepresent what I have said. I wasn't speaking of sins after salvation, that is those sins that affect a person's walk with God. After salvation a believers sins are forgiven in respect to salvation. But the believer must still ask forgiveness to maintain a right relationship with the Lord. That has nothing to do with salvation. You are confusing two entirely different subjects.

The blood of Christ covers all sin, all the sin of all the people of all the ages in the world. However it is only efficacious on those who believe. God offers a gift, the gift is salvation. You have the choice to receive or reject it. It is not God's fault if man rejects the offer of salvation that he has provided.

The "future" is not after salvation?

According to you people will all either be lost because "all" men are liars and liars will have their part in the LoF. Or all men will be saved, because the sins of all men have legally been satisfied to God, therefore they can't be remembered against them.
According to you, "all" preachers who say "you must believe" to be saved are all in "error" and only you are right. Greaaaaaaat!

BBob,

 

[DHK]

The "future" is not after salvation?

According to you people will all either be lost because "all" men are liars and liars will have their part in the LoF. Or all men will be saved, because the sins of all men have legally been satisfied to God, therefore they can't be remembered against them.
According to you, "all" preachers who say "you must believe" to be saved are all in "error" and only you are right. Greaaaaaaat!

BBob,

Bob I pointed it out to you in the simplest of terms.
You do believe in those simple truths taught in John 3:16, don't you?
That is what I believe.
1. God so loved the world
2. That he sent his only begotten Son. It was he who died and made an atonement for the sins of the world.
3. That whosoever believes on him.
4. Shall have everlasting life.

Do you believe in that ever so simple message Bob.
That is the message that I believe.

You can obscure it all you want with frivolous trivia. But the gospel will never change. I am sorry that you don't believe the gospel. You seem to be presenting a different gospel on this board.

 

[Brother Bob]

Bob I pointed it out to you in the simplest of terms.
You do believe in those simple truths taught in John 3:16, don't you?
That is what I believe.
1. God so loved the world
2. That he sent his only begotten Son. It was he who died and made an atonement for the sins of the world.
3. That whosoever believes on him.
4. Shall have everlasting life.

Do you believe in that ever so simple message Bob.
That is the message that I believe.

You can obscure it all you want with frivolous trivia. But the gospel will never change. I am sorry that you don't believe the gospel. You seem to be presenting a different gospel on this board.

This is miles apart from what you posted before, of which we challenged you on. But you will not admit it, but you have it in writing so you can't deny it.

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
--The word "propitiation" means "satisfaction." It is a legal term. The demands of God were legally satisfied with the blood of Christ. He paid for my sins, and for the sins of the whole world with the payment of his blood. That met the demands of God. He paid the price of all my sins: past, present, and future.
__________________
DHK

This is universal salvation if I have ever seen it written down.I

I don't think you believe in universal salvation, I been around you too long to believe that, but you undoubtable misquoted. Say its a misquote or live with it.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

This is miles apart from what you posted before, of which we challenged you on. But you will not admit it, but you have it in writing so you can't deny it.

Ok, so you believe what I quoted concerning John 3:16.

I don't think you believe in universal salvation, I been around you too long to believe that, but you undoubtable misquoted. Say its a misquote or live with it.

BBob,

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
--The word "propitiation" means "satisfaction." It is a legal term. The demands of God were legally satisfied with the blood of Christ. He paid for my sins, and for the sins of the whole world with the payment of his blood. That met the demands of God. He paid the price of all my sins: past, present, and future.

The above is an explanation of 1John 2:2
It is the simple Word of God and in essence says the same thing as John 3:16. The message is the same. To accuse me of universal salvation is slander. There is no misquote.

If I say from John 3:16, that Christ died for the sins of the whole world you believe me.

If I say from 1John 2:2 that Christ is the propitiation...for the sins of the whole world", an exact quote, you don't believe the Bible, even though it is an exact quote. What is wrong with that verse? Did you cut it out of your Bible?

He paid the price for the sins of the whole world. Is that what it says Bob? Yes or No? Answer me!! Do you believe what the Bible says here? If so why would you dare suggest that this is universal salvation???
It is exactly what the Bible says--word for word.
It says "the sins of the whole world". Look it up.
What does "the sins of the whole world" mean?
It means all of them--past present and future. Christ paid for them all.

That is not universal salvation. To have salvation one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, just as John 3:16 teaches, and just as this verse would teach. Salvation is only "efficacious" to those that believe. I also explained that before, but you ignored it. Christ died for all the sins of every person in every age in this world. But you must accept his sacrifice or that atonement won't be any good to you.

 

[steaver]

He quoted it exactly like you posted it, don't transfer the blame to him. Why do you not say sometimes I didn't complete what I meant, or I misquoted. Why place the blame somewhere else, when it is squarely on your shoulders.

BBob,

Remember BBob, I quoted you exactly like you posted it and it took about four tries before you stopped blaming me for falsehoods. Just remember, before we speak to quickly, that hypocrites go to the lake of fire also. You are telling DHK to stop doing what you had been guilty of doing.

BTW. under your theology hypocrisy is a sin unto death. I wonder how many times we all (this includes you BBob) have told someone to stop doing something that we have done or do ourselves? Hypocrisy alone proves your theory that a Christian cannot sin unto death (as you see unto death) wrong.



:jesus:

 

[Brother Bob]

Ok, so you believe what I quoted concerning John 3:16.


The above is an explanation of 1John 2:2
It is the simple Word of God and in essence says the same thing as John 3:16. The message is the same. To accuse me of universal salvation is slander. There is no misquote.

If I say from John 3:16, that Christ died for the sins of the whole world you believe me.

If I say from 1John 2:2 that Christ is the propitiation...for the sins of the whole world", an exact quote, you don't believe the Bible, even though it is an exact quote. What is wrong with that verse? Did you cut it out of your Bible?

He paid the price for the sins of the whole world. Is that what it says Bob? Yes or No? Answer me!! Do you believe what the Bible says here? If so why would you dare suggest that this is universal salvation???
It is exactly what the Bible says--word for word.
It says "the sins of the whole world". Look it up.
What does "the sins of the whole world" mean?
It means all of them--past present and future. Christ paid for them all.

That is not universal salvation. To have salvation one must believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, just as John 3:16 teaches, and just as this verse would teach. Salvation is only "efficacious" to those that believe. I also explained that before, but you ignored it. Christ died for all the sins of every person in every age in this world. But you must accept his sacrifice or that atonement won't be any good to you.

You leave out a very important part, "you must believe".

I didn't think you would step up to the plate and admit you didn't get it right. You left out part and added it later.

You say that all your sins are cast into a sea of forgetfulness, but yet you say, if you eat the communion bread unworthily, your life could be shortened. That is double talk, and is saying that all your future sins were "not" cast into a sea of forgetfulness, never to be "remembered" against you anymore. Double talk.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Remember BBob, I quoted you exactly like you posted it and it took about four tries before you stopped blaming me for falsehoods. Just remember, before we speak to quickly, that hypocrites go to the lake of fire also. You are telling DHK to stop doing what you had been guilty of doing.

BTW. under your theology hypocrisy is a sin unto death. I wonder how many times we all (this includes you BBob) have told someone to stop doing something that we have done or do ourselves? Hypocrisy alone proves your theory that a Christian cannot sin unto death (as you see unto death) wrong.



:jesus:

I don't base my theology on a "?" mark anyway, and he did get it wrong. He left out "you must keep His commandments" of which you and DHK, don't seem to believe, by saying you can commit any sin, and still be a Christian. You are in the same boat he is. Base your doctrine on exclamation marks. jeepers.

BTW; what do you do about the scripture that "you must keep His commandments"????

BBob,