Can a Christian sin?

[DHK]

1: The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
2: He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
3: He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
4: Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
5: Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
6: Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

BBob, raying:

That doesn't show me how the soul is different enough from the spirit in that both are either sinful, or just one sinful. You have posted nothing about the spirit. Why can't the spirit be sinful too. You have not made your case for the spirit.
I asked you

Where does the Bible say that the "soul" has sin; whereas the human "spirit" does not? Please use the exact words soul and spirit in the Scripture you quote avoiding the use of vague terminology such as "the inward man" which could refer to either or both.

 

[Brother Bob]

That doesn't show me how the soul is different enough from the spirit in that both are either sinful, or just one sinful. You have posted nothing about the spirit. Why can't the spirit be sinful too. You have not made your case for the spirit.
I asked you

Luk 8:2And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,

Psa 32:2Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.


There is more, but this should be enough for most. Not sure about you though.

Also, read the post before the one you copied and pasted.

Anything else???


BBob,

 

[DHK]

Luk 8:2And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils,
BBob,

Obviously spirits are evil.
And evil spirits can live in people.
Your argument is not convincing.

 

[DHK]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The soul and the spirit are one according to Scripture. They can only be separated by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit using the Word of God. By and large they act as one and are joined together. When one sins the other sins. There is not one part that sins, and one part that doesn't. You can't make that claim. They are joined together as Heb.4:12 indicates. It is the power of the Word of God that is able to "divide them asunder." Otherwise they remain as one, inextricably joined together. This is the teaching of the Word of God on this subject.

 

[Brother Bob]

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

The soul and the spirit are one according to Scripture. They can only be separated by the convicting power of the Holy Spirit using the Word of God. By and large they act as one and are joined together. When one sins the other sins. There is not one part that sins, and one part that doesn't. You can't make that claim. They are joined together as Heb.4:12 indicates. It is the power of the Word of God that is able to "divide them asunder." Otherwise they remain as one, inextricably joined together. This is the teaching of the Word of God on this subject.

That is after you have been "born again", there must come a separation of soul and spirit, to be born again, the evil spirit must be cast out and the good spirit come in.

Psa 32:2Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

If scripture does not convince you, who am I??

BBob,

 

[DHK]

That is after you have been "born again", there must come a separation of soul and spirit, to be born again, the evil spirit must be cast out and the good spirit come in.

Psa 32:2Blessed [is] the man unto whom the LORD imputeth not iniquity, and in whose spirit [there is] no guile.

If scripture does not convince you, who am I??

BBob,

When an evil spirit is cast out a person can be saved.
Paul was speaking to saved individuals in Hebrews 4.
Here is the context:

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
--We which have believed, indicates Christians.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Now he speaks of soul and spirit which normally are joined together, both of which have the capability of sinning in this present Christian life.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Originally Posted by Heavenly Pilgrim

HP: I was always under the impression from Scripture that the unsaved had to do something to be forgiven, and that without which that being done no sins would be remitted?

DHK: You are under the wrong impression. Salvation is a free gift of God. Salvation is not of works (Eph.2:8,9; Rom.6:23). True Christianity is the only religion in the world wherein a man does not have to work for his salvation; does not have to do something to be saved; it is a gift of God; acquired by faith alone.

HP: Why is it that if I say a person has to do something in order to be saved you bring up salvation by works, but you can say the exact same thing and say it is by faith alone? If the reader will note, in my post I did not specify what it was a man must so, but only that a man must do something. Since DHK has now mentioned faith, let’s start with that action. Faith clearly involves an action of the will does it not? Is faith some nebulous gift that God grants to the elect or is faith something God calls upon man to exercise, man’s will being an intrinsic part of the faith process? If man’s will is not involved in faith, faith can be in support of nothing short of the false notion of limited atonement, faith only granted to a select few.

How can ones ideas of faith not be clearly associated with irresistible grace, if in fact man’s will is not involved? If the granting of saving faith has nothing to do with man, it can only be the results of God’s will alone if some receive it. If that is the case, who can resist that which is a matter of God’s will and that alone, esablishing the notion that such faith is indeed irresistible.


HP: I have certainly heard a lot of preachers telling the unsaved that they would have to do something to go to heaven. You don't suppose they all are in error do you?

DHK: Yes. Every last one of them are in error. Salvation is a gift. You don't have to do anything for it, but receive it by faith.

HP: Yet further evidence that the idea of faith held by DHK is nothing short of the results of a limited atonement and irresistible grace seeing that he claims man cannot be told there is something they must do to be saved without DHK crying they, by doing so, are in error. If faith is not something man must exercise, man’s will is not involved. If man’s will is not involved, saving faith is nothing short of the plans of an Omnipotent God bestowing what is His and His alone upon a preselected group of individuals known as 'the elect.' That is exactly the sentiments behind the doctrine of limited atonement, and establishes the validity of irresistible grace, for if man has nothing to do in order to receive saving faith, man can do nothing to do to resist saving faith.

Tell us DHK that you do not hold to a limited atonement and irresisitble grace. If you do not hold to these well known doctrinal tenants, explain to us what it is that man must do to be saved. Remember, it was You DHK that clearly stated, without asking what it is that the things one must do, that all that state that there is something man must do, are in error. If you say faith, it is your duty to explain how faith does not involve man's will and by doing so swallow the two doctirnal positions well known by any student od theology as two tenants of Calvinism's TULIP.

 

[Brother Bob]

When an evil spirit is cast out a person can be saved.
Paul was speaking to saved individuals in Hebrews 4.
Here is the context:

Hebrews 4:3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
--We which have believed, indicates Christians.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

Now he speaks of soul and spirit which normally are joined together, both of which have the capability of sinning in this present Christian life.

I told you the evil spirit must be cast out and the good spirit come in. Then there will be no separation, for both will go to heaven at the natural death. You do believe that both soul and spirit are going to heaven, don't you? Anyway, you are the one who posted that many times they are interchangeable.

Yes, before salvation. A soul with sin, is not going to heaven

A Spirit with sin, is not going to heaven.

A body with sin, is not going to heaven

They must all be redeemed.

The soul and Spirit are redeemed in this life.

The body will be redeemed in the resurrection.

That is scripture and "The" doctrine. If any man bring any other doctrine, bid him not into your house.

BBob,

 

[steaver]

Faith clearly involves an action of the will does it not? Is faith some nebulous gift that God grants to the elect or is faith something God calls upon man to exercise, man’s will being an intrinsic part of the faith process? If man’s will is not involved in faith, faith can be in support of nothing short of the false notion of limited atonement, faith only granted to a select few.

How can ones ideas of faith not be clearly associated with irresistible grace, if in fact man’s will is not involved? If the granting of saving faith has nothing to do with man, it can only be the results of God’s will alone if some receive it. If that is the case, who can resist that which is a matter of God’s will and that alone, esablishing the notion that such faith is indeed irresistible.

I think this is why Calvin chose to believe in irresistable grace. He could not deal with John 1:13...."Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God".

Without the rebirth no man can be saved. Salvation begins with regeneration. Where then does one's saving faith come from? John leaves no wiggle room, man's will does not save. Does Calvin have a point? Can you reconcile John's discription of the rebirth with your insistence that man's will must be involved?

:jesus:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: I think this is why Calvin chose to believe in irresistable grace. He could not deal with John 1:13...."Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God".

HP: No one that I have ever heard, from Arminian to Calvinist, from Baptist to Pentecostal, believes that the will of man is the grounds of our salvation or that the will of man is the cause of ones salvation. Salvation was planned and birthed by God alone. In spite of that truth, mans will is involved in salvation for an Omnipotent Sovereign God designed it that way. It can be said that no man is saved on the account of man’s will, but it can also be said that apart from man’s will acting in obedience to the conditions for salvation that God has mandated for man to comply with, no one will be saved. We are not saved ‘for the sake of’ man’s will, but neither will any man be saved without voluntarily complying with the conditions of salvation God has set forth. The part man plays in making salvation real in our lives, is always thought of in the sense of ‘not without which’ not ‘that for the sake of.’

Steaver: Without the rebirth no man can be saved. Salvation begins with regeneration.

HP: Here you seem to be espousing the very heart and soul of Calvinism, which sets forth God in His sovereignty choosing whom He will regenerate and whom He will leave in their sinful state. You appear to be setting forth that God alone is the sole ‘cause' of individual salvation, when in fact God’s Word tells us otherwise. If God is the sole cause of ones individual salvation, and we all agree that not all will be saved, then God has withheld the necessary cause of those that will be damned to escape eternal hell. If God has to act upon man in regeneration in order for man to be saved, then any that are not regenerated by God would have never even had any possibility of being saved. Such a doctrine establishes double predestination, the notion that God predestines both the damned and the saved to their fates, a notion Calvin clearly admitted as a necessitated consequence of his theology.

Salvation does not begin with regeneration. Salvation begins with God’s plan making salvation possible. Regeneration happens subsequent to man fulfilling the conditions of faith and repentance, without which no salvation or regeneration is possible.

Steaver: Where then does one's saving faith come from?

HP: Saving faith is not something that ‘comes’ from something. Saving faith is the results of God formulating a plan and establishing conditions in combination with man voluntarily complying to those conditions established by God.

Steaver: John leaves no wiggle room, man's will does not save.

HP: God alone saves, but that does not exclude or preclude man’s will from being involved in the salvation process. We are not saved by the will of man, but it can also be said that no one will be saved apart from man’s will yielding itself in humble obedience to God’s stated conditions. God’s part is to establish and implement the plan where by man might be saved. God builds the bridge. Man’s part is to repent and exercise faith in God’s plan via obedience.

Steaver: Does Calvin have a point? Can you reconcile John's discription of the rebirth with your insistence that man's will must be involved?

HP: Calvin was logically forced to believe in double predestination as a direct result of his view of a literal payment and his belief that man had to be regenerated before he could even believe. If God failed to grant the means of regeneration to some, the only logical possibility left was that God predestined those not regenerated to damnation.

I believe I have explained how the will of man is indeed involved in the plan of salvation, without which Calvin’s notion of double predestination is a necessitated logical conclusion in spite of the error it sustains.

 

[Pastor_Bob]

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