Brother Bob
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Heavenly Pilgrim said:
Christians are those that love God and keep His commandments, not those that say they love God and live after the flesh. I do not believe that Christians commit adultery.
BBob,
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Can a Dead Body Sin?
- Thread starter Heavenly Pilgrim
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Christians are those that love God and keep His commandments, not those that say they love God and live after the flesh. I do not believe that Christians commit adultery.
BBob,
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: I appreciate what you are saying. I would simply say that anyone that claims to be a Christian, and sins willfully against a known commandment of God refusing to repent and to turn from their sins, is in danger of the judgment and eternal punishment.
I do not make doctrine out of personal examples I have known, but I will share with you a case that I know the individual well over almost her entire lifetime. This individual was raised in a Christian home, had a strong and obvious profession of faith, attended Bible college, married another Christian man from that college and were living what I would deem as exemplary Christian lives although they struggled with problems learning to cope within their marriage over 'difficult to deal with' personal attitudes etc.
Through a matter of unordinary circumstances, and extreme temptation over a period of time, she gave in to a short lived adulterous affair. She recognized immediately her sin, repented and turned from it and is still married to the husband of her youth. She has since lived an exemplary Christian life from all apparent observations, and is an asset to her family and church. I have no reason to doubt her experience and testimony as being a Christian prior to her affair. I knew her well. Just the same, I have no doubt that her actions, left unrepented of would have cost her her soul.
Again, we cannot form doctrinal opinions merely from experiences gained from our perspectives, but I do believe that experience can testify to the reality such as in this case that one can be a true believer in Christ and yet under extreme temptation fall and be in need of renewed forgiveness in order to make heaven ones home. I believe this case to be in direct line with the warnings to believers to make our calling and election sure by introspection of our intents and subsequent actions. 2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
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Heavenly Pilgrim
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Quote:
HP: And how many sins were paid for, or to whom did Christ die?
HP: Is it possible for sins to be paid for, once for all, yet not be an effective payment in regards to some?
HP: Then how can you escape a universalist position?? If the payment made was effective for all there would be no sin remaining to judge anyone by.
Quote:
HP: If you say that we must receive the gift in order for the payment made to be effective, how can you avoid holding to it being man that determines in the end who is saved and who is not?
HP: What power does man have to make of no effect a payment made once for all by God Himself before they were ever born??
Quote:
HP: If God made a payment for all sins once for all, why will not all be saved in the end?
HP: Here you appear to equate not believing with blasphemy. What support do you have to indicate that unbelief and blasphemy are one in the same??
Quote:
HP: What sins will a sinner in hell be held responsible for if all have been paid for once for all?
HP: Then one can safely assume that all that find their abode in hell are all guilty of blasphemy?? Show us one Scripture that would indicate such to be the truth.
HP: And how many sins were paid for, or to whom did Christ die?
Quote:
HP: Is it possible for sins to be paid for, once for all, yet not be an effective payment in regards to some?
HP: Then how can you escape a universalist position?? If the payment made was effective for all there would be no sin remaining to judge anyone by.
Quote:
HP: If you say that we must receive the gift in order for the payment made to be effective, how can you avoid holding to it being man that determines in the end who is saved and who is not?
HP: That verse in no wise answers my question. That verse simply states that all that have truly believed are not condemned, but sinners that have not believed are condemned until such a time as they do. Neither does it establish in the least that all have heard or that all will hear.
HP: What power does man have to make of no effect a payment made once for all by God Himself before they were ever born??
HP: Then tell us, does God revoke His payment made on the sinners behalf, having ‘paid for’ their sins, past present and future? If so, why is that not an arbitrary system God operates, our intents and actions having no bearing on the outcome God fore ordains to come to pass? Sounds like irresistable grace and limited atonement to me. What good is a payment 'once for all' 'for all' that does not secure forgiveness for all? You appear to be saying that God makes an eternal decree on the account of all sins of all men that they are paid for in full and then disannuls that forgiveness for some in the end. Now I am certain that DHK would ask if in fact that does not make God out to be a liar when he originally paid for all the sins of the world and that eternally and then for some arbitrary reason, man having nothing to do with it, revokes such payments effectiveness to secure that for which you clearly indicate was eternally paid for, for all, once for all.
Quote:
HP: If God made a payment for all sins once for all, why will not all be saved in the end?
HP: Here you appear to equate not believing with blasphemy. What support do you have to indicate that unbelief and blasphemy are one in the same??
Quote:
HP: What sins will a sinner in hell be held responsible for if all have been paid for once for all?
HP: Then one can safely assume that all that find their abode in hell are all guilty of blasphemy?? Show us one Scripture that would indicate such to be the truth.
They are not "one in the same" but rather they go hand in hand together in the context the statement was made. One cannot believe that Jesus is the Son of God and at the same time vilify His work attributing it to satan.
Jesus said "Wherefore". Read the preceeding context and you will see that Jesus healed a man and the Pharisees said that He did it by the power of Beelzebub. Can a man believe Jesus is the Son of God and at the same time attribute His works to satan?
Anytime the Holy Spirit gives witness that Jesus is the Christ and man rejects the witness, man is declaring the Holy Spirit a liar. This is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and it is also unbelief. Did the Pharisees say to Jesus 'we believe you are the Son of God but your works are of satan' ? No, they "believed not".
:jesus:
You see HP? We have three totally different views.
Bob says a Christian cannot or will not ever sin any of the "big ones". Of course we know from the scriptures and from experiences that this simply is not true.
HP says that a Christian can sin and be found in hell if the sin has not been repented of. Of course we know from scriptures and from experiences that this simply is not true.
Steaver says that a Christian can sin and never be found in hell. Of course we know from the scriptures and from experiences that this is absolutely the correct view.
:wavey:
Brother Bob
New Member
So, Steaver says that the blood is a "ticket" to sin and not pay, when scripture says the wages of sin is death.steaver said:
To find in scripture that a believer commits the big ones as you put it. You no doubt will do what most do and run to King David, who was under the Law. If you pattern you life after King David, hell will be your home. IMO
BBob,
Brother Bob
New Member
HP; and all, I had some kind of attack last week and spent last Wed. in the VA emergency room about 2 hrs from home. I was there all day running tests on me. I go back this Wed. for an entire body scan and ultra sound. Then I will be seeing the surgeon. They think its my gall bladder but not sure, so please pray for me, I need it.
BBob,
BBob,
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Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
HP: If that is true, than anyone that has ever rejected the wooing of the Spirit has committed blasphemy. Is that not a proper deduction from what you have stated?
That is simply in error and is not founded in truth or reality. Legion are the reasons why men might reject the wooing of the Spirit. Many have been saved after rejecting the Spirit many times. Thank the Lord for heavens hounds or I would not be saved today!
Heavenly Pilgrim
New Member
And we will be praying with and for you Brother Bob!
I also sent you a PM.
I also sent you a PM.
The "big ones"? The "little ones"? Sin is sin. God doesn't differentiate. Sin is defined as a transgression of God's law. It is just as bad to lie as it is to be a homosexual or to commit adultery in God's book. All sin is equally the same.Brother Bob said:
Are you a Catholic? Two kinds of sin? Big and little? Mortal and venial? That is what I learned as a Catholic, not as a Christian.
Very good point :thumbs:
That can be a proper deduction from what I have stated. Therefore my statement is not well thought through and was made in haste allowing for error. Poor teaching, may the Lord forgive me. I retract the statement for it is misguiding. I will have to slow down and choose my wording more carefully.
Gotta go, I'll be back!
:thumbs:
Paul was accused of saying the same thing in his letters proclaiming faith in the blood of Christ as the atonement for all sin apart from the law. I am in good company. :thumbs:
That wage was paid for by Jesus Christ brother. In Him I have my pardon.
:jesus:
Brother Bob
New Member
Do you deny scripture, don't care if you are Catholic or Baptist.DHK said:
Jhn 19:11Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power [at all] against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
Jesus had a difference with you DHK!!
Could you give me scripture that all sin are the same with God???
BBob,
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Brother Bob
New Member
steaver said:
Really???
Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
Hbr 10:29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
Looks like the blood "run out"!!!!!
BBob,
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I believe these verses are speaking of an unbeliever. One who has been given the knowledge of salvation, understands it, but completely rejects it. There is no other salvation available. If one has understood that Christ's blood is the only means of salvation, and "tramples it underfoot", he has said in his heart, "there is no God". He has rejected the ONLY means by which he can be saved.Brother Bob said:
I have personally seen many people who have received the gospel, understood it, but refused to accept it because "they loved their sin".
Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;Brother Bob said:
--Does't matter what sin it is, you have sinned--great or small, and that makes you a sinner, condemned before God.
1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
--Sin is a transgression of the law. It doesn't matter if it is a lie, or homosexuality. Both are the same. Both transgress the law. God never drew a difference between the two. They are the same in that they both transgress God's law. Sin is sin.
James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
--If you are perfect for all your life and only sin once--just one little lie, then you are just as guilty as if you had broken all the law all your life.
A liar will stand before God just as guilty as a murderer. There is no difference between their sins. Sin is sin.
James 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
--James spells it out quite clearly here. One sin is equal to another. Don't think that one is any greater than another. He plainly says that if you say "I am not an adulterer," yet if you have killed (become angry with your brother), you have transgressed the law. There is no difference. You still have broken the same law as the adulterer. You are that wicked sinner that you didn't want to associate yourself with. But you have broken God's law and are under the same condemnation, for sin is sin, and God doesn't differentiate.
Bob, you quoted:
The verse you quoted was about Judas, the son of perdition, that one who betrayed Christ. Are you sure you want to equate me with Judas Iscariot? Is that what you are doing? No, I don't have a difference with the words of Jesus, and they don't have a difference with mine. Neither do I take his words out of context as you have just done.
Brother Bob
New Member
How can it possible be unbelievers.Amy.G said:
Also, do you believe the unbeliever is only given "one" chance to repent???
Sorry Amy; please read more of the chapter and you will see it is talking to the believers.
Heb. 10:
16: This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17: And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
18: Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
19: Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
20: By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21: And having an high priest over the house of God;
22: Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23: Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
24: And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
26: For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
BBob,
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Brother Bob
New Member
Why does the sinner make a difference, you put your own meaning on the scripture, unstead of letting it speak for itself.DHK said:
Though it was Judas, Jesus said he hath committed the "greater" sin. So, in fact Jesus considered there was differences in sin.
Spin it all you want, but that is the context that someone had committed a "greater" sin.
Here you make a difference yourself, calling it "just one little lie", if all sin is the same, a lie is a lie, is a lie.
So, you and Paul know more about sin than Jesus?? Paul was speaking of the commandments, and there being no difference. He was not comparing the commandments with failing to show up at church, because of lazyiness.
BBob,
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