Can a Dead Body Sin?

[Amy.G]

Bro. Bob, if Hebrews 16 is talking about believers who are saved, then what you have is believers losing their salvation by trampling the blood of Christ underfoot.

Hebrews was written to Jews and chapter 16 is telling how a person is saved, through Christ alone, who has already made the final sacrifice. There is no other sacrifice available. Those Jews that have heard the gospel and understood it yet rejected it, are forever lost, because there is no other way to be saved.

At least that is what I believe it is teaching.



PS. I will pray about your gall bladder test. Been there, done that and if you get it removed, you will feel much better. raying:
:1_grouphug:

 

[Brother Bob]

Bro. Bob, if Hebrews 16 is talking about believers who are saved, then what you have is believers losing their salvation by trampling the blood of Christ underfoot.

Hebrews was written to Jews and chapter 16 is telling how a person is saved, through Christ alone, who has already made the final sacrifice. There is no other sacrifice available. Those Jews that have heard the gospel and understood it yet rejected it, are forever lost, because there is no other way to be saved.

At least that is what I believe it is teaching.



PS. I will pray about your gall bladder test. Been there, done that and if you get it removed, you will feel much better. raying:
:1_grouphug:

Paul says its talking to the believers. He doesn't say that we can do it, just if we do, there will be no more sacrifice.

Also, about Israel, if what you say is true, then you must not believe in MK. Of course I don't believe in it. I believe the church and Israel are one.


Thanks for the prayers, I will need it for its dangereous to put me to sleep.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Here you make a difference yourself, calling it "just one little lie", if all sin is the same, a lie is a lie, is a lie.

You are right. A lie is a lie is a lie. and
Murder is murder is murder, and
Adultery is adultery is adultery, and
They are all the same in God's sight.
For sin is sin; and sin is a transgression of the law, defined by God himself in 1John 3:4

So, you and Paul know more about sin than Jesus?? Paul was speaking of the commandments, and there being no difference. He was not comparing the commandments with failing to show up at church, because of lazyiness.
BBob,

Do you deny the inspiration of the Bible?
Do you deny that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the triune Godhead?

The words of Jesus are found in the gospels, as recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The words of Paul are recorded in the thirteen different epistles, and inspired by the same Holy Spirit that inspired the words of Jesus in the gospels.
Does Paul know more about sin than Jesus?
The more accurate question to ask is: Does the third person of the Godhead know more about sin than the second person of the Godhead?

Would you care to answer that question.
In fact the Bible in all of its books, gospels and epistles, has only one author--the Holy Spirit. The words of Jesus are no more inspired than the words of Paul. So the answer to your question: Does Paul know more than Jesus. No, he knows the same as Jesus as far as what is written in Scripture is concerned, for all is inspired by the same Holy Spirit, and not one word contradicts another. If you think there is a contradiction Bob, then it is your theology that is contradicting what the Word of God teaches.

 

[steaver]

Really???

Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

Hbr 10:29Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Looks like the blood "run out"!!!!!

BBob

BBob, you state that your position is that a true born of God believer does not sin against God's laws. In fact, you state Christians love God and obey God's commandments, that they are kept by the power of God to do so.

So what does Hebrews 10 have to do with our discussion about believers sinning?

Are you posting a passage now supporting the view that true believers can sin these sins?

If you are suggesting that Hebrews 10 is speaking about believers then you are opposing your own said position that born of God believers would not treat the sacrifice of Christ in such a way as discribed in Hebrews 10. For they love God and keep His commandments, correct?

Can you explain your point in posting this passage in this debate? Are you saying Hebrews 10 is speaking of true born-again believers committing such a heinous sin as trodding underfoot the Son of God and counting the blood of Christ an unholy thing?

Please clarify.

:thumbs:

 

[Brother Bob]

You are right. A lie is a lie is a lie. and
Murder is murder is murder, and
Adultery is adultery is adultery, and
They are all the same in God's sight.
For sin is sin; and sin is a transgression of the law, defined by God himself in 1John 3:4

Do you deny the inspiration of the Bible?
Do you deny that the Holy Spirit is the third person of the triune Godhead?

The words of Jesus are found in the gospels, as recorded by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, and inspired by the Holy Spirit.

The words of Paul are recorded in the thirteen different epistles, and inspired by the same Holy Spirit that inspired the words of Jesus in the gospels.
Does Paul know more about sin than Jesus?
The more accurate question to ask is: Does the third person of the Godhead know more about sin than the second person of the Godhead?

Would you care to answer that question.
In fact the Bible in all of its books, gospels and epistles, has only one author--the Holy Spirit. The words of Jesus are no more inspired than the words of Paul. So the answer to your question: Does Paul know more than Jesus. No, he knows the same as Jesus as far as what is written in Scripture is concerned, for all is inspired by the same Holy Spirit, and not one word contradicts another. If you think there is a contradiction Bob, then it is your theology that is contradicting what the Word of God teaches.

I do think there is a contradiction on your part DHK;

Yes, I do believe in being inspiried, and believe Jesus when He said, not DHK;, that he that hath delivered me hath the greater sin.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

BBob, you state that your position is that a true born of God believer does not sin against God's laws. In fact, you state Christians love God and obey God's commandments, that they are kept by the power of God to do so.

So what does Hebrews 10 have to do with our discussion about believers sinning?

Are you posting a passage now supporting the view that true believers can sin these sins?

If you are suggesting that Hebrews 10 is speaking about believers then you are opposing your own said position that born of God believers would not treat the sacrifice of Christ in such a way as discribed in Hebrews 10. For they love God and keep His commandments, correct?

Can you explain your point in posting this passage in this debate? Are you saying Hebrews 10 is speaking of true born-again believers committing such a heinous sin as trodding underfoot the Son of God and counting the blood of Christ an unholy thing?

Please clarify.

:thumbs:

No, what I posted means they would be lost forever. I am simply quoting scripture that if it were possible to put God to an open shame, then there would be no more sacrifice. I believe the scriptures are telling us how impossible it is to commit such things, for we would be gone forever. That should scare you on your belief.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I do think there is a contradiction on your part DHK;

Yes, I do believe in being inspiried, and believe Jesus when He said, not DHK;, that he that hath delivered me hath the greater sin.

BBob,

Who had this "greater sin" and why?

 

[Brother Bob]

Who had this "greater sin" and why?

Of course the case we read of is Judas because of "betrayal", but betrayal is betrayal, is betrayal. It is an example of betrayal and treachery.

Lam 4:6For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed on her.

1Jo 5:17All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

What is the sin, not unto death, when you say all sin are the same????

1Jo 5:18¶We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Of course the case we read of is Judas because of "betrayal", but betrayal is betrayal, is betrayal. It is an example of betrayal and treachery.

All betrayal is not the same betrayal.
Is there anyone today that is able to betray Jesus into the hands of the soldiers in order to be crucified?
Is there anyone today that Satan entered to do such a devious and wicked act?
Is there anyone today that is directly called by Jesus the son of perdition?
Is there anyone today that Jesus curses for carrying out such an act?

The answer of course is no. The act is a one time act, never again to be repeated in history. So why take Scripture out of context just to support your pet theory?

 

[steaver]

No, what I posted means they would be lost forever. I am simply quoting scripture that if it were possible to put God to an open shame, then there would be no more sacrifice. I believe the scriptures are telling us how impossible it is to commit such things, for we would be gone forever. That should scare you on your belief.

BBob,

It does not scare me on my belief. I have first hand knowledge of a born of God believer committing adultery, repenting and being forgiven for it. Their are countless testimonies of truly born of God believers who have fallen and repented again. HP gave you his testimony and another of a friend he knows. My belief does not scare me and niether does Hebrews 10. I know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him unto that day.

I'm sorry brother, but your belief of no possibility of law breaking for a Christian is just plain absurd and unscriptual. God love ya , but you are way wrong on this one. I pray your congregation is not going around looking down their noses at Christians who have fallen.
I heard about Christians shooting their own wounded, I see what they mean.

raying:

 

[Brother Bob]

It does not scare me on my belief. I have first hand knowledge of a born of God believer committing adultery, repenting and being forgiven for it. Their are countless testimonies of truly born of God believers who have fallen and repented again. HP gave you his testimony and another of a friend he knows. My belief does not scare me and niether does Hebrews 10. I know whom I have believed in and am persuaded that He is able to keep that which I have committed to Him unto that day.

I'm sorry brother, but your belief of no possibility of law breaking for a Christian is just plain absurd and unscriptual. God love ya , but you are way wrong on this one. I pray your congregation is not going around looking down their noses at Christians who have fallen.
I heard about Christians shooting their own wounded, I see what they mean.

raying:

So, you have the gift to see in the heart, I do not. I just gave you scripture on Christians being indwelt with the Holy Spirit and what Jesus said about the matter.

That which is born of God cannot sin. "Go tell it to the Master".

I keep seeing your attempts to pit me against HP, who is a dear friend, but I have known how he believes for a long time, still believe him to be my brother in Christ and a friend.

BBob,

BBob,

 

[Amy.G]

Paul says its talking to the believers. He doesn't say that we can do it, just if we do, there will be no more sacrifice.

Also, about Israel, if what you say is true, then you must not believe in MK. Of course I don't believe in it. I believe the church and Israel are one.


Thanks for the prayers, I will need it for its dangereous to put me to sleep.

BBob,

I'm not sure what you mean about Israel.

 

[DHK]

So, you have the gift to see in the heart, I do not. I just gave you scripture on Christians being indwelt with the Holy Spirit and what Jesus said about the matter.

That which is born of God cannot sin. "Go tell it to the Master".

BBob,

I have the gift to see in my heart, even if I sin (a great sin).
Perhaps you don't have the gift to tell the difference what you think God is saying in that verse, and what God is actually saying in that verse. I believe that is the problem.

 

[Brother Bob]

I have the gift to see in my heart, even if I sin (a great sin).
Perhaps you don't have the gift to tell the difference what you think God is saying in that verse, and what God is actually saying in that verse. I believe that is the problem.

Or its you who can't see, ..................

I think if I questioned you long enough, you would tell me that you have "doubted" from time to time over the years, not God, but yourself?

BBob,

 

[steaver]

So, you have the gift to see in the heart, I do not. I just gave you scripture on Christians being indwelt with the Holy Spirit and what Jesus said about the matter.

That which is born of God cannot sin. "Go tell it to the Master".

BBob,

I wouldn't call it a gift. I know my ownself.

The scripture you quote is speaking of a continuation of sin forever in their life. The Christian cannot go on sinning, the Spirit indwellment will stay in the process of sanctification for His seed remaineth.

God Bless!

 

[Brother Bob]

I'm not sure what you mean about Israel.

Jhn 1:11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
According to your recent statement, the unbelievers here are lost forever.

Amy; Hebrews was written to Jews and chapter 16 is telling how a person is saved, through Christ alone, who has already made the final sacrifice. There is no other sacrifice available. Those Jews that have heard the gospel and understood it yet rejected it, are forever lost, because there is no other way to be saved.

I thought I had saw in the past where you agreed with some that all Israel would be saved in the MK.

I could be wrong.

BBob,

 

[DHK]

Or its you who can't see, ..................

I think if I questioned you long enough, you would tell me that you have "doubted" from time to time over the years, not God, but yourself?

BBob,

Is this an admission of yourself, or do you put yourself on a higher plane than others?
If it is an admission of your own self, then of course you sin, (which I know you have admitted to before).
What you don't admit to is all sin is the same in God's eyes. (You can even ask God; he will agree with me.)
Since all sin is the same, and you also have sinned, you have put yourself in the same condemnation as any adulterer or homosexual. You are just as bad as they?

Unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisess you shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of God.

 

[Brother Bob]

I wouldn't call it a gift. I know my ownself.

The scripture you quote is speaking of a continuation of sin forever in their life. The Christian cannot go on sinning, the Spirit indwellment will stay in the process of sanctification for His seed remaineth.

God Bless!

I would like to know where you fellows come up with this has to be a "continuing" sin?

If they Christian cannot go on sinning, then how can he sin.
What keeps him from going on sinning? If it can keep him from going on sinning, why can't it keep him from doing it in the first place. I am not talking of a sin that is not unto death, that the Lord spoke of.

BBob,

 

[Brother Bob]

Is this an admission of yourself, or do you put yourself on a higher plane than others?
If it is an admission of your own self, then of course you sin, (which I know you have admitted to before).
What you don't admit to is all sin is the same in God's eyes. (You can even ask God; he will agree with me.)
Since all sin is the same, and you also have sinned, you have put yourself in the same condemnation as any adulterer or homosexual. You are just as bad as they?

Unless your righteousness exceed the righteousness of the Pharisess you shall in no wise enter into the Kingdom of God.

So, throw the words of the Lord in the garbage "there is a sin not unto death".

Answer my question, have you ever doubted???

BBob,

 

[DHK]

I would like to know where you fellows come up with this has to be a "continuing" sin?

You need to read or at least be familiar with the Greek, from which our translation is taken from.