Can a Dead Body Sin?

[Brother Bob]

All the drug dealers standing on the street corner selling drugs to children, could all be saved and the children of the Living God, if the doctrine of some is true.

Don't mean any harm, but that is the case of how I read the doctrine of many. I pray that I am misunderstanding.

Bbob,

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Brother Bob: All the drug dealers standing on the street corner selling drugs to children, could all be saved and the children of the Living God, if the doctrine of some is true.

Don't mean any harm, but that is the case of how I read the doctrine of many. I pray that I am misunderstanding.

HP: You are not just making up a scenario here. Drug dealing may not have been the problem with me but my life was certainly full of sin and rebellion when God got a hold of me the second time.

I was raised in a Christian home with loving parents who modeled the Christian life before us in an usual way. I gave my heart to the Lord at an early age at a youth camp and had a relationship with the Lord for several years. I fell prey to temptations and lusts in my early teens which led to a life filled with sin for many years. It was not until God raked me over the reality of death and a final judgment through the death of a close friend that I saw myself as one destined for the lake of fire and without hope. If you were to tell me that I was really saved all the time, I would say that you are as deceived as one could possibly be. I was "lost and undone, without God or His Son" as the songwriter so aptly stated.

This business of saying that one can live like the devil, and still be saved all the time, or that if one is living like the devil but has been saved in the past, that their eternal life with God is secure, are simply deceived as to the truth. God has not so designed our assurance of eternal life to be held with certainty at the same time our hearts and actions are far from Him. Only as we are found to be walking in obedience to His Word are we assured of our final standing before God.


1Jo 1:7 BUT IF we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

I say preach all of the security one so desires, simply preach it in conjunction with a heart fixed upon obedience to God. We need to be secure in Christ. Just the same, to represent our security as something one can hold in one hand and be living a life of sin by the other is pure unadultrated deception.

 

[steaver]

Ok Steaver, but it was the Holy Spirit that told you, not me. I only told you how anyone finds out they are saved. I still don't know when you were saved, that is between you and God.

Peace to you and may God bless you on your journey.

BBob,

Peace brother! YBIC :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

I was raised in a Christian home with loving parents who modeled the Christian life before us in an usual way. I gave my heart to the Lord at an early age at a youth camp and had a relationship with the Lord for several years. I fell prey to temptations and lusts in my early teens which led to a life filled with sin for many years. It was not until God raked me over the reality of death and a final judgment through the death of a close friend that I saw myself as one destined for the lake of fire and without hope. If you were to tell me that I was really saved all the time, I would say that you are as deceived as one could possibly be. I was "lost and undone, without God or His Son" as the songwriter so aptly stated.

We have similar testimonies. I see God keeping us saved through chastisment. You see yourself keeping you saved through obedience.

Just two different points of view. One by grace, another by self perserverance.

God bless!

 

[steaver]

I know at this point in time you cannot lay hold of this, but you are a fine example of OSAS.

Praise Jesus! :godisgood:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: We have similar testimonies. I see God keeping us saved through chastisment. You see yourself keeping you saved through obedience.

Just two different points of view. One by grace, another by self perserverance.

HP: What? Saved by ‘self perseverance? I hardly think so. I was persevering in sin and that will save no one and will damn all that do so regardless of any and all past experiences. It was by God’s grace and grace alone that I was offered anew a right standing before Him. To suggest that by yielding my will in repentance before God that somehow that constitutes salvation by works is a false and unwarranted talking point of the Calvinist. It does not have the least shred of truth to it.

My repentance could not in any way have merited my salvation. Nothing but God’s grace and mercy via the shed blood of Christ can any sin be atoned for. Just the same, God has in His Sovereignty established conditions for man to fulfill ‘without which’ no man shall be saved, repentance being one of them. “Unless ye repent ye shall all likewise perish.” That is a warning and a command for all men everywhere to exercise their wills in obedience, without which they shall not inherit eternal life. When I fulfilled God’s conditions, then and then only did God shed His love abroad in my heart personally and grant to me the hope of eternal life.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: I know at this point in time you cannot lay hold of this, but you are a fine example of OSAS.

HP: I can appreciate your heart in this matter.:thumbs: Let us commit ourselves to pray one for another that we might indeed be counted worthy to be in that number of the redeemed, with Christ as our Advocate in that great day of reserrection and judgment!

I liked what James Dobson told his son as I recall, to “Just be there!” Let us all make it our daily goal to live lives pleasing to God in obedience with everything that is within us by the help of the promised Holy Spirit!

 

[steaver]

HP: What? Saved by ‘self perseverance? I hardly think so. I was persevering in sin and that will save no one and will damn all that do so regardless of any and all past experiences.

May I ask you a question? You said that before you fell into all of this sin you was born-again? Can you tell me if you still had the Spirit of Christ while you was in this condition?

If you answer yes, that you still had the Spirit of Christ, then how is it you believe a child of God with the Spirit of Christ goes to hell? I've never seen any such scripture.

If you answer no, you did not have the Spirit of Christ, then were you born-again twice? Knowing that having the Spirit of Christ comes only through regeneration.

HP: I can appreciate your heart in this matter.:thumbs: Let us commit ourselves to pray one for another that we might indeed be counted worthy to be in that number of the redeemed, with Christ as our Advocate in that great day of reserrection and judgment!

I liked what James Dobson told his son as I recall, to “Just be there!” Let us all make it our daily goal to live lives pleasing to God in obedience with everything that is within us by the help of the promised Holy Spirit!

Will do! raying: raying: raying:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: May I ask you a question? You said that before you fell into all of this sin you was born-again? Can you tell me if you still had the Spirit of Christ while you was in this condition?

HP: First, your question does not appear totally coherent. I will simply say, if a person is born again they have a measure of the Spirit of Christ. If I did not I was none of His.

Steaver: If you answer yes, that you still had the Spirit of Christ, then how is it you believe a child of God with the Spirit of Christ goes to hell? I've never seen any such scripture.

HP: The last time I checked I had not gone to hell. It would be apparent to me that if one has not grieved the Holy Spirit away for good, that they would have till their last breath to get right with God. Hell is not generally meted out the moment one sins, nor is our final reward meted out in finality in this world. We are granted the hope of eternal life, but we are granted time in this worlds to prove ourselves faithful. Who knows when ‘the time’ is that one that backslides is no longer a child of God in God’s eyes? What does it matter? The point is that anyone, regardless of their standing in the past or in spite of any past experiences, that persists in disobedience until the end without fulfilling the conditions of repentance and faith, will not be counted as a child of God at the judgment.

You have to love God to make it to heaven. One that loves God is obedient to His commands. “He that saith he loveth Me and keepeth not My commandments, is a liar and the truth is not in him.” I say one that fails to love God, but counts himself into the kingdom on the merits of past experiences or beliefs, will find themselves as far from the kingdom as a liar will find himself. “If you love me, keep my commandments.”

 

[steaver]

HP: First, your question does not appear totally coherent. I will simply say, if a person is born again they have a measure of the Spirit of Christ. If I did not I was none of His.

What is incoherent about the question?

HP; I gave my heart to the Lord at an early age at a youth camp and had a relationship with the Lord for several years.

Was you regenerated (born again) having the witness of the Holy Spirit indwellment, or was you just playing religion (you thought obeying the scriptures was a born again relationship) ?

HP: I fell prey to temptations and lusts in my early teens which led to a life filled with sin for many years.

I then asked; Can you tell me if you still had the Spirit of Christ while you was in this condition?

You answered;

I will simply say, if a person is born again they have a measure of the Spirit of Christ. If I did not I was none of His.

Is this a dodge? Did you have the Spirit indwellement prior to your sin years or not?

:jesus:

 

[steaver]

Just a bump! :wavey:

I know how busy we can all get. Sometimes I can't get back to the computer for days or even weeks. And sometimes I only have enough time for short responses or response to only one thread.

Take your time, I just didn't want this thread getting dropped off.

God bless! :thumbs:

 

[trustitl]

I feel compelled to weigh in in the debate over sin in a born again believer. If I am reading this correctly I am seeing the following being taught:

1. A born again believer cannot break the ten commandments and still go to heaven.

Brother Bob: "I don't believe a truly born of God person can fall, and
to break the commandments, would be to fall."

2. A born again believer will not break one of the ten commandments.

Brother Bob: "I know, I will never commit adultery. Do you know that
now after the new baptism??"
"I do believe in keep the Ten Commandments. I do not believe a

man can be with his neighbor's wife and be saved at the same time."

3. A born again believer cannot choose to sin when they know it is wrong and still go to heaven.

Brother Bob:
"He (Jesus)also said, if we sin willing, we shall not inherit the Kingdom."

Yes, you are a living example alright, if of a born again child of God???? What you tell me, is all I have to go on. Is it the truth, who knows.

HP: "God has simply not so designed the assurance of ones eternal salvation to be irrevocable or fixed when walking in open disobedience and rebellion against a known commandment of God."

4. The willful sinning that is being talked about in Hebrews 10:26 is all sins that we know to be wrong.

Brother Bob: Hbr 10:26¶For if we sin wilfully after that we have
received the knowledge
of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,

I am sure you knew you were sinning when you engaged in the act of
adultery. Now were you a child of God, when you wilfully sinned, only
you and God knows that."

Please feel free to clarify if I have misunderstood anything.

I thought I would re-post this.

 

[Brother Bob]

I thought I would re-post this.

Thanks...............

BBob,

 

[steaver]

HP; I gave my heart to the Lord at an early age at a youth camp and had a relationship with the Lord for several years.

HP: I fell prey to temptations and lusts in my early teens which led to a life filled with sin for many years.

Did you have the Spirit of Christ (born-again) for several years before falling prey?

Did you have the Spirit of Christ while living a life filled with sin?

Take your time and think it through, I know this is challenging your deeply held view of Romans 8. You always stress the logical end of one's view.

God Bless!

 

[steaver]

HP; I gave my heart to the Lord at an early age at a youth camp and had a relationship with the Lord for several years.

Maybe I should be more specific with my inquirey. When you say "had a relationship with the Lord" do you mean Spirit had given birth to your spirit, born again(Jo 3), received His seed(1Jo 3:9), received His seal of ownership(Eph 4:30), received His unction(1Jo 2:20)?

HP: I fell prey to temptations and lusts in my early teens which led to a life filled with sin for many years.

Did you have the Spirit of Christ while living this part of your life filled with sin?

Again, take your time, I know how it gets busy posting in several threads at once. This is just a bump until you find the time to respond. I believe an examination of your life here will shed much light on your understanding of scripture.

God Bless! :jesus:

 

[steaver]

Interesting........... raying:

 

[joyce]

Can a Dead Body Sin

Brother Bob: I like the way you explain this. I once heard someone say that where a man puts his eyes his feet are sure to follow and in light of a verse in the Word that says, we are to set our eyes on things above and not things on earth. I can try as hard as I like to clean myself up; but, it won't happen until I ask Him to do it for me, and then get out of the way and allow Him to do it for me. Change comes from the work of the Holy Spirit, inside each of us; but, we have to want the HS to do it also. There are many carnal Christians, who do not allow this, and they wind up being chastized by Him. He wants fellowship with us, and when we sin, we break fellowship with Him. When Christ was on the cross and asked God, referring to Him as My God, He asked, "why hath though forsaken me". I feel that was the very moment that He took our sins upon Himself, and God, had to turn from Him at that very moment. Now, we are covered in His blood and when God sees us, He sees His Son.

There are so many people today that feel they must keep the Mosaic Law or follow the ten commandments. Man doesn't know what is good and what is bad, He does; and, to work through us, we have to allow Him to clean us up. Too many people think they have to clean themselves up before asking Him to come into their life; but, they should come as they are, and ask Him to come clean up the mess and He will.
A pastor I know once referred to a Christian sinning as running errands for a corpse. As the flesh is dead and dying, it will rot one day. Our soul is eternal and eternity is forever, much longer than this life we have on earth in this corruptible body. So; what we need to ask ourselves I think, is are we running errands for a corpse or are we being vessels through which He can work through.
YSIC
Joyce

 

[LeBuick]

Every time I see this thread I want to ask the question, can a table sin? How about a chair? Can a house sin? How about your shirt?

 

[steaver]

Every time I see this thread I want to ask the question, can a table sin? How about a chair? Can a house sin? How about your shirt?

No harm in asking questions, this is how we come to logical conclusions about one's views (and hopefully if they see an illogical conclusion they will adjusted their views accordingly) but some simply get to a point where they cannot answer without compromising their view so rather than let truth correct as necessary, some simply go into denial and refuse to engage any further.

The answers to your questions are all "no".

God Bless! :wavey:

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Steaver: but some simply get to a point where they cannot answer without compromising their view so rather than let truth correct as necessary, some simply go into denial and refuse to engage any further.

HP: I for one refuse to engage with those that after repeatedly setting forth the truth of the differing senses in which effort by men are thought of or not in their relationship to eternal salvation but to no avail.

I will answer posts as I see them conducive for instruction to the list and to the setting forth of truth, not when others simply brow beat for whatever reasons.