Can a man sin a sin unto death after being born again.

[DeafPosttrib]

I understand what 1 John 3:9 means. This doesn't prove of security salvation of unconditional.

1 John 3:9 says, "Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin, because he is born of God."

This tells us, a TRULY person who is born again will not commit sin, whilst he is abiding in Christ at the same time. A person cannot sin, because he is child of God.

This verse doesn't mean that a born again person will never sin again, it tells us, that a TRULY born again person who will NOT commit sins, show that a person did seriously repented of sins, walking in the light same time.

Right now, it is 1:45 am. I need soon go to sleep. Tomorrow, I will continue discuss more on this.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[EdSutton]

I understand what 1 John 3:9 means. This doesn't prove of security salvation of unconditional.

1 John 3:9 says, "Whosoever is born of God DOTH NOT commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he CANNOT sin, because he is born of God."

This tells us, a TRULY person who is born again will not commit sin, whilst he is abiding in Christ at the same time. A person cannot sin, because he is child of God.

This verse doesn't mean that a born again person will never sin again, it tells us, that a TRULY born again person who will NOT commit sins, show that a person did seriously repented of sins, walking in the light same time.

Right now, it is 1:45 am. I need soon go to sleep. Tomorrow, I will continue discuss more on this.

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

Where does the Bible ever use the phrase "truly born again" in its pages? I never found it. Nor have I ever found that it ever says anything on the order of "really and truly, genuinely believe" or any related such nonsense, either. "The Bible doesn't talk like that!" as I one heard someone say. It says 'believe'; it says 'believe not', or 'disbelieve', as one version renders this; it says "born 'anothen'". But it has no additional qualifiers to either 'believe' or 'born again'. We tend to add 'em. God didn't. Aren't we suggesting, by this adding to the Word, that we "really" know more about this that God?

Ed

 

[Brother Bob]

charles_creech78

God just don't save just one person. He saves alot . I am tired of this better than others junk. I do not care anymore. I come on hear to get answers and I get nothing but that you can lose God after being born again or you can't lose God after being born again. which one is it? I am not saved but I am looking and tring to find answers about God from Christain. But I cannot get a Good answer. Why should I seek God if he cannot keep me and save my soul to the end. What is the point of being saved. What am I saved from if he can't keep me. I am tired so tired. I guess I 'll go to hell. I deserve it. I have done nothing good in this life. I read the bible and see if any see what I see from it. But I guess I am wrong about it. I thought God can save you to the end being born again. But I was wrong. Not alot of Christains believe that God can save them till the end. On what I get on hear. I have no fight left in me. I know I can't save myself and I know I cannot abide. I do not want to serve a God that cannot save me from myself. So of what I heard on this topic I can't be saved by God. I am done with this. I have been pushed away on everthing I have posted. I have gave scripture of man that is born of God cannot sin. But you tell me you can. But the bible teaches me that if you sin you are of the devil. I will tell all of you the truth I rather know I am going to hell then to thank that I am going to heaven being a sinner and come short. I know that I am a sinner and that if I keep sinning I will end up in the lake of fire. God is clean and holy. God does not dwell in a unclean temple. What make that man unclean? (sin) Ok if I told you I sin what does that make me? A sinner. Where does a sinner go? (To hell) But you say you sin and still are going to heaven. How can that be? What am I going to hell for my sin? So what are you going to heaven for your sin .The bible tells me that he that sinneth is of the devil. But what I cannot understand is that you sin but are of God. I know what I am. I am a sinner. I am going to hell. God is not in me because I am a sinner and unclean. God has let me know what I am by nature.( A SINNER). And what I must be by the grace of God.(born again). God is clean and good I am unclean and unholy and am a sinner. I will not hide what I am. And if he can't save me from my sins then I don't want to be saved. Please prey for me. God bless all of you. I love you brother Bob and brother convicted. You have helped me out alot.

Thank you Charles but there is a reason to continue on here. First, it causes you to read and study so:

Tts 1:9Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Most of all, we need to know what is being taught in the world today. I disagree with almost everyone on here on one issue or the other, but agree with almost everyone on here on a lot of issues. It is a hard bunch alright, but iron sharpens iron and since I been on here, I have felt as you do now and started to leave a few times, but even though I go head to head with most, I have come to respect many for standing up and giving scripture for what they believe.
Salvation is between you and the Lord. These fellows on here and me have nothing to do with you being saved. I think it is good that you see, others don't believe as we do, but in all honesty, it made me believe stronger in my beliefs. Hang in there. I have seen you post a lot of scripture and that is how you learn. If everyone agreed with you, then you would not have much purpose to study. I started years ago, learning what others believe so I could defend what I believe. I have studied other denominations, their beliefs and why do they believe that, all to make me a better Christian. So, in the end, hang in there and learn. It will make you stronger. I got 35 years in this now, and still learning.

BBob,

 

[HankD]

Hi everyone, I've been on vacation and I would like to now respond to one passage which some have discussed, namely:

Hebrews 6:1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,
2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
3 And this will we do, if God permit.
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God:
8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned.
9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.​

First IMO, the Book of Hebrews was written to Hebrews (Duh ) and/or anyone who was religiously inclined torward Judaism. (proselytes, B'nai Noach, etc) and so we seem here in this passage to be dealing with those who have had a true spiritual experience (pre-Calvary) but just short of salvation. One who has been convicted of the truth through the OT individual convicting work of the Spirit but who have not or perhaps will not enter into the faith necessary for salvation under the Law. Those who were now hearing the message of the grace of God and do not enter into His rest simply prove that they were not true Jews in the first place and are strongly admonished to do so lest they fall under this curse (of being burned).​

This Hebrews 6 Scripture (IMO) is speaking of those individuals as Paul says in verse 9​

9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.​

An example of such a person might be​

Acts 24
24 And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
25 And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.
26 He hoped also that money should have been given him of Paul, that he might loose him: wherefore he sent for him the oftener, and communed with him.
27 But after two years Porcius Festus came into Felix' room: and Felix, willing to shew the Jews a pleasure, left Paul bound.​

Humanly speaking I believe this principle still applies to folks in this age. Those who hearing the Gospel of the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ come just short of salvation via the convicting/reproving work of the Holy Spirit but who back off into perdition without closure with Christ. For the most aprt they are cut off except for one exceptionnal work of God as follows​

Everyone forgets verse 3
3 And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible...​

In other words it IS possible to get these folks back to the point of conviction/reproval they fell from ...if God permit.​

As applies to the then hearers of Book of Hebrews in this apostolic age of signs and wonders (at the writing of the Book of Hebrews), anyone who heard the preaching of the Apostles with accompanying heavenly works and yet rejected their message of the grace of God through faith in Jesus Christ had no hope of salvation through the act of human witness and preaching unless a special "if God permit" exception was made by God Himself to bring them back to that point.​

Paul himself perhaps being one of those exceptions after participating in and witnessing the death of Stephen.​

Strictly my interpretive opinion.​

HankD​

 

[David Lamb]

Where does the Bible ever use the phrase "truly born again" in its pages? I never found it. Nor have I ever found that it ever says anything on the order of "really and truly, genuinely believe" or any related such nonsense, either. "The Bible doesn't talk like that!" as I one heard someone say. It says 'believe'; it says 'believe not', or 'disbelieve', as one version renders this; it says "born 'anothen'". But it has no additional qualifiers to either 'believe' or 'born again'. We tend to add 'em. God didn't. Aren't we suggesting, by this adding to the Word, that we "really" know more about this that God?

Ed

When I read words like "true Christian", or "truly born again", I understand the writer to be distinguishing between those who really know the Lord Jesus Christ as their Saviour, and the many people who think (as I did before God graciously saved me) that they are Christians (perhaps because they go to church, they "never do anyone any harm", their parents are Christians, or a multitude of other reasons). Perhaps there is a better way of indicating that difference. What would you suggest, Ed?

As for the phrases not appearing in the English bible, neither are "trinity", "the prieshood of all believers", "missionary work", "bible study", "prayer meeting" . . . and countless others in regular use among Christians.

 

[Brother Bob]

Paul himself perhaps being one of those exceptions after participating in and witnessing the death of Stephen.

Strictly my interpretive opinion.

HankD

They were made "partakers of the Holy Ghost", and then fell, if possible.

 

[JustChristian]

Amen DeafPosttrib

This directly answers this question for me.

Jhn 15:1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.
Jhn 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.
Jhn 15:3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.
Jhn 15:4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.
Jhn 15:5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
Jhn 15:6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.
Jhn 15:7 If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
Jhn 15:8 Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.
Jhn 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
Jhn 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
Jhn 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain in you, and [that] your joy might be full.
***********************************************************
In verse 2 Jesus talks about every branch in me that beareth not fruit. What are branches in me? Obviously people who have been saved. Are the lost in Jesus? No. What happens to Christians who do not bear fruit? They are cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. Interpret this as you will but they are obviously separated from God and cast into fire. Their destiny is clear to me.

Want to live a meaningful Christian life and produce much fruit? If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. In this way we can keep the joy of our salvation (verse 11)

 

[HankD]

They were made "partakers of the Holy Ghost", and then fell, if possible

Partakers - "sharing in".

Anyone convicted/reproved by the Spirit of God shares with Him in that discourse even the lost:

Example: Genesis 4

6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
9 And the LORD said unto Cain, Where is Abel thy brother? And he said, I know not: Am I my brother's keeper?
10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.
11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;​

 

[EdSutton]

Perhaps there is a better way of indicating that difference. What would you suggest, Ed?

How about "He that believes on Him is not condemned; he that disbelieves is condemned already."

Uh - it seemed to work okay for Jesus!

Ed

 

[HankD]

They are cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned. Interpret this as you will but they are obviously separated from God and cast into fire. Their destiny is clear to me.

1 Corinthians 3

13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
17 If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.​

 

[Brother Bob]

Anyone convicted/reproved by the Spirit of God shares with Him in that discourse even the lost:

They didn't have the "indwelling of the Holy Ghost" in the days of Cain.

Sorry, but the lost have not:

who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

 

[HankD]

Sorry, but the lost have not:

Who said anything about the "indwelling" Spirit?
The Book of Hebrews simply says they "partook" which means "to share".

Just as Cain shared his feelings with God in Genesis so people in this age can reject His reproval which He relates to them...

John 16

7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;​

Every person in the world receives enlightenment from God...

John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
​

James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.​

HankD

 

[Brother Bob]

Who said anything about the "indwelling" Spirit?
The Book of Hebrews simply says they "partook" which means "to share".

So, you think the world "shares" in the Holy Ghost. I know a man once who tried to buy it and the Lord said, thy money perish with thee.

If you are right then what did the "fall" from?

 

[HankD]

So, you think the world "shares" in the Holy Ghost. I know a man once who tried to buy it and the Lord said, thy money perish with thee.

If you are right then what did the "fall" from?

The Spirit of Grace.

Hebrews 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Those who are reproved of God and refuse have done respite to the Spirit of Grace and are doomed to destruction.

KJV Proverbs 29:1 He, that being often reproved hardeneth his neck, shall suddenly be destroyed, and that without remedy.

Unless God permit...

Borther Bob, we have different opinions concerning this matter, please don't take offense as I do not either.

I'm just offering you my view. You may very well be correct and you make a good case.

God bless you.


HankD​

 

[Brother Bob]

Borther Bob, we have different opinions concerning this matter, please don't take offense as I do not either.

I'm just offering you my view. You may very well be correct and you make a good case.

God bless you.


HankD

No, I don't take offense at all and glad thatyou don't either.

God bless you too, BBob

 

[charles_creech78]

This is what I believe in. I do not thank a man born again can sin. I thank them that say he can is lier.The devil is a lie and the father of it. I thank this saying comes from satin. If you sin you are of the devil. I do not care what you thank about this.If you do not believe God can keep you from sinning then that is your problem. I do believe he can keep me from sin. I will look for him with all of my heart. I will keep my self from this sin that seperates me from the love of God. Jesus came to destroy the works of satin. The work of satin is sin. I do not believe that a man that is born again can backslide from God. I have read the scripture and this is what I am going by.

 

[DHK]

This is what I believe in. I do not thank a man born again can sin. I thank them that say he can is lier.The devil is a lie and the father of it. I thank this saying comes from satin. If you sin you are of the devil. I do not care what you thank about this.If you do not believe God can keep you from sinning then that is your problem. I do believe he can keep me from sin. I will look for him with all of my heart. I will keep my self from this sin that seperates me from the love of God. Jesus came to destroy the works of satin. The work of satin is sin. I do not believe that a man that is born again can backslide from God. I have read the scripture and this is what I am going by.

Do you claim to be as holy as God is holy?

 

[HankD]

Charles, is fornication a sin?

KJV Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


​

 

[charles_creech78]

Do you claim to be as holy as God is holy?

No I do not. Read all of my threeds in hear. I am not making myself something I an't. I am just saying what the bible tells me. It said if you sin you are of the devil. I do not understand that a Christain can sin but still go to heaven. I am a sinner but I am going to hell because I sin. You are a Christain sinner but you are going to heaven. This is what I do not understand . Do you sin DHK? What does that make you If you do sin? Does it make you a Christain or a sinner? Does sinners go to heaven or hell? I remeber you wrote to me on hear and said sin is all the same. So if sin is all the same and you sin at all you are going to Hell. So how does someone who still sin go to heaven? I know we have all sin and come short of the glory of God. So if sin is all the same then it is all unto death. So that sin that you do as a Christain is unto death. That Christain is still dieing going down to a devils hell. So if sin is all the same then that sin he was talking about in 1 John is the same . He that sinneth is of the devil. So if you sinn you are of what?
So let us see what the bible sayeth about this. 1 John chapter 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil: for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this PURPOSE the Son of God was MANIFESTED, that he might DESTROY the WORKS of the devil.What is the works of the devil? (SIN) I am tring to find God and I am tring stop doing them sins that seperate me form the love of God. There are alot of thing I need to prove on.I am not judgeing you or anyone else. I just thought I would come on hear to get some Christain points. Please answer this ? How can a Christain go to heaven sinning and why do a sinner that an't a christain go to hell for sinning.

 

[charles_creech78]

Charles, is fornication a sin?

KJV Revelation 2:20 Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.


​

When you know to do Good and do it not then it is sin. Yes fornication will send you to hell. Sin will send you to hell. Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these Adultery, FORNICATION,uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulation, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,21 Envings, murder, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the witch I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that THEY WHICH DO SUCH THINGS SHALL NOT INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD.